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David_Rose: Not sure where I see that I'm talking down to people.
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tinyE: Lets look at a few of these.

"Sorry, I wasn't aware that I had to spell that out."
"Not preaching. Just giving my opinion. Do they not have free speech in the Netherlands?"
"Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what I said. Your reading comprehension skill are amazing. Have fun with Starcraft."

You're ideas are sound, VERY sound. We may not all agree with all of them but they are valid and of course you have the right to express them. Actually you have the right to express them the way you are but doing so, with these little snippy comments AND a clear inability to take a joke, is going to sadly render what are good points moot because no one is going to care how good they are if you are a prick while expressing them.

Just saying. You have the right to continue to voice yourself as you have been, just don't be surprised if you get pissy replies in return. People aren't responding the way they are because they are stupid or mean, they are simply offering back the same amount of respect and courtesy you are giving them, which right now is nill.

I still can't get over the Netherlands comment. This is country that makes Nevada look conservative and you post that. I'll give you some credit for bravery on that one; you deserve that much. :D
"Sorry, I wasn't aware that I had to spell that out."
I meant no disrespect in that. It wasn't intended as a jab at that person. I simply wasn't aware that I needed to reiterate an idea that was previously stated. I didn't say, "I wasn't aware that I had to spell that out for you". I wasn't trying to make it personal or insult that person.

"Not preaching. Just giving my opinion. Do they not have free speech in the Netherlands?"
And I have a clear inability to take a joke? Looks like I'm not the only one. Come on, it's the Netherlands!

"Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what I said. Your reading comprehension skill are amazing. Have fun with Starcraft."
Yes, that was mean of me. But considering that this person took what I wrote to mean that I hate AAA games and big developers, I do think that the poster didn't comprehend what I wrote. But you're right, I shouldn't have got snippy and I'm sorry about that.

As I said, I'm willing to respect anyone's opinion whether I share it or not. But when people who don't read or don't comprehend what I wrote respond with insinuations that I must be a big developer hater or an indie fanboy, I am likely to take it personal. Granted, it's not as bad as calling me an asshole or suggesting that I need kicked in the nuts, but they made it personal first. They can say whatever they want about what I wrote, but they shouldn't pretend to know who I am.
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David_Rose: if you have a suggestion on how to end it to everybody's liking, myself and every publisher in the known universe is all ears.
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hucklebarry: The only thing I see in your rebuttal is that you seem to think that if you type enough, you can justify theft. It doesn't work that way.

To answer the part I quoted... don't steal anything. Period. This is the solution for all parties involved. There is no need to correct a problem that people invent simply because they are greedy and selfish.

Good luck, I wish you the best in fixing gaming.
I NEVER tried to justify piracy. I don't. But your solution of "don't steal anything. Period." doesn't address the realities of the real world in which people are going to pirate games. Period. I'm not suggesting that my idea of pirating games by larger developers is ideal, or morally right. But it's also not so simplistic of an idea as your don't steal anything policy that completely fails to address real world conditions in which piracy does exist whether we want it to or not. But if neither of our ideas are good ones, I know of one that someone else came up with. It's called DRM.

And good luck to you as well.
Is this your homework?
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David_Rose: 4-Tell people about the indie games that you love.
So, you want me not to talk about indy games?

Seriously though, most indy games are not even worth a pay-what-you-want price. That's also why they have to practically get given away in bundles all the time. Why do we even distinguish between indy and non-indy? No one is calling games like Divinity: Dragon Commander indy, even though there is no big publisher behind them.

Indy is considered a "hipster label" for good reasons, the only reason those games sell at all is because they market themselves as indy and trying to be unique (while they are all being Braid-cones).

Of course there are exceptions, there are exceptions to everything, but the good ones don't even need to call themselves indy. All they need to do is make quality entertainment, I don't care how big the team is or if they are financed by a big company or their mums.
Post edited June 13, 2013 by HiPhish
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tinyE: Lets look at a few of these.

"Sorry, I wasn't aware that I had to spell that out."
"Not preaching. Just giving my opinion. Do they not have free speech in the Netherlands?"
"Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what I said. Your reading comprehension skill are amazing. Have fun with Starcraft."

You're ideas are sound, VERY sound. We may not all agree with all of them but they are valid and of course you have the right to express them. Actually you have the right to express them the way you are but doing so, with these little snippy comments AND a clear inability to take a joke, is going to sadly render what are good points moot because no one is going to care how good they are if you are a prick while expressing them.

Just saying. You have the right to continue to voice yourself as you have been, just don't be surprised if you get pissy replies in return. People aren't responding the way they are because they are stupid or mean, they are simply offering back the same amount of respect and courtesy you are giving them, which right now is nill.

I still can't get over the Netherlands comment. This is country that makes Nevada look conservative and you post that. I'll give you some credit for bravery on that one; you deserve that much. :D
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David_Rose: "Sorry, I wasn't aware that I had to spell that out."
I meant no disrespect in that. It wasn't intended as a jab at that person. I simply wasn't aware that I needed to reiterate an idea that was previously stated. I didn't say, "I wasn't aware that I had to spell that out for you". I wasn't trying to make it personal or insult that person.

"Not preaching. Just giving my opinion. Do they not have free speech in the Netherlands?"
And I have a clear inability to take a joke? Looks like I'm not the only one. Come on, it's the Netherlands!

"Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what I said. Your reading comprehension skill are amazing. Have fun with Starcraft."
Yes, that was mean of me. But considering that this person took what I wrote to mean that I hate AAA games and big developers, I do think that the poster didn't comprehend what I wrote. But you're right, I shouldn't have got snippy and I'm sorry about that.

As I said, I'm willing to respect anyone's opinion whether I share it or not. But when people who don't read or don't comprehend what I wrote respond with insinuations that I must be a big developer hater or an indie fanboy, I am likely to take it personal. Granted, it's not as bad as calling me an asshole or suggesting that I need kicked in the nuts, but they made it personal first. They can say whatever they want about what I wrote, but they shouldn't pretend to know who I am.
Fair enough. :D
Sorry about the asshole comment and I mean that. I was obviously WAY jumping the gun on that and I clearly misjudged you.

As far as the response I gave to the people who downrepped it, I MEAN THAT TOO! :D
Small and independent developers are great and all, but the indie development scene in general is still guilty of overderivation, genre saturation, audience neglect, bandwagoning, missing the point, and general bullshit (like providing Steam codes exclusively). Some of the most interesting games I've played in recent years have come from small-time developers, but just like everything else, there's a lot of crap out there.

Are they as bad about these things as the mega-giants? Maybe not, but while I'm a big supporter of the indie explosion, it hasn't exactly been the savior of gaming. My particular interests tend to be better served by indies than by big publishers, but not by very much.
games, it doesn't matter for me if they are indie or AAA productions. I only seek enjoyment playing them.
Remember EA or Ubisoft hasn't started as AAA producers. In a way every company of that area was an indie project.
They were just lucky. And if one of the so called indie projects gets enough money they would try their luck with more
professional (aka more money) games. Don't fall into the trap that indie developers do that for the fun of it.
I'll pirate whatever I want to pirate and pay as much as i can afford to, thank you. This is just like vegans picking on regular people because they enjoy a piece of cheap chicken every once in a while.
Way to low rate the OP. Stay classy people.
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David_Rose: 4-Tell people about the indie games that you love.
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HiPhish: So, you want me not to talk about indy games?
The only good Indy game I know of is the Fate of Atlantis. ;)
edit: Nevermind, not worth it :p
Post edited June 14, 2013 by user deleted
The reasoning in the original post is at an acceptable level, though the rhetoric used seems befitting of a bright high school senior at best. The world-view it is based on, however, doesn't hold any water upon further inspection; it is too clear-cut and naive. It offers a solution for a problem which does not exist. It relies on crude stereotyping and assumes mental inertia, underestimates the ability of others to make wise choices when faced with shifting circumstances. Finally - it is torn apart by a conflict between appealing to moral duty and economic reason.
Any conclusions are almost foregone, what needs proving is that the world actually is a Manichean battleground between the forces of indie and AAA. In my eyes - it isn't, rendering the whole propaganda hollow.