The concept is fine, the execution is Packard Bell.

To explain that metaphor that only a very small subset of people would even get, paid mods are something of a strange concept. It can work, but from what I understand, the CC basically forces you to all in with whatever account garbage Bethesda/Microsoft would have, among a cavalcade of other caveats, such as submission, approval, and basically handing your work over on a permanent basis.

This can lead to favoritism, nepotism, restrictions, guidelines and worse.

Seriously? Creation Club encourages modders to lock mods into being paywalled behind one DRM'd store under the guise of "rewarding creators" (which could be done financially directly). In theory "you can often download the same mod content elsewhere for free". In practise, some mods do and some don't resulting in less free mods overall.

Creation Club mods can only be acquired in game via Creation Club "credits" (essentially the Bethesda equivalent of mobile games 'freemium' coins). That purchasing of CC mod content is done in-game using those coins requires the store-specific functionality to be coded into the game, which obviously requires DRM to be permanently hard-coded into the game to enforce access control to said content, and literally means Creation Club integration and DRM-Free will always be exact polar opposites, which is why there's no Skyrim on GOG despite being +10 years old now and every other previous game in the franchise were here years ago. Same issue with Fallout 4.

I fully expect ES6 to be a full-on cash machine with a game tacked onto the side as an afterthought.

I definitely get what you're saying, I'm not saying the system is perfect but so far, I haven't seen any major issues with it.

It sounds to me like you're just a cynical person, to be honest.

LOL. No it doesn't. There's a reason why I can buy "published by Bethesda" Prey (2017) but can't buy "published by Bethesda" Skyrim (2011) on GOG. I'm sure you'll figure that reason out...

So what part of my "cynical" explanation that Creation Club requires DRM was factually inaccurate when that's literally how CC's in-game monetization works?...

No, it doesn't. It completely ruins and crashes certain mods, and especially TC's like Enderal. Bethesda are going to remove all traces of the originals, and only way to get those are via unofficial channels (see Doom 3 BFG and others).

And yes, as AB2012 is mentioning - it's the complete antithesis of what mods and free creativity is about. Personally, I'd rather like the choice of endorsing them directly if I can and want and not let Bethesda kill the community and take money for it at the same time.

It's not being cynical, it's being a realist here; CCC is like playing favoritism with only one of your children, and shun the other...

If you're worried about that, just don't get them. Problem solved. Additionally, Doom 3 BFG should not have received the level of criticism that it did. You can still buy the classics independently.

It's absolutely not the antithesis of anything. You can still get way more mods absolutely for free, nobody is forcing anyone to give their mods to Bethesda or anything like that. While there are flaws, CC allows modders to make a little money off of their creations by releasing their work as official content and also, it allows them to be recognized by Bethesda, thus potentially giving them opportunities to work in the games industry. Meanwhile, players have the ability to buy new content for these games indefinitely, going forward. Unlike mods, CC content is official DLC and thus it helps to keep the games alive long-term.

It's real simple: if people don't want to buy CC content, they don't have to. They can continue to use mods as much as they want, for as long as they want. This is just like the arguments against Galaxy: people who don't like it literally want to ruin things for people that do by insisting that GOG end development of it, despite the fact that it's 100% optional.

Like what you like, hate what you hate, just quit acting like your opinions should be forced upon everyone.

It sounds like you're still struggling to grasp the basic concept that it's not the fact people may or may not want CC content specifically, but rather the fact "In Game Purchases = DRM = there will be no DRM-Free GOG version of the game", and many people here on GOG care far more about that than fuelling Bethesda's cash-cow fetish. ie, the biggest irony is those demanding the game be stuffed to the eyeballs with DRM on a permanent basis (due to 'liking' CC content and mobile-style IAP's in full priced PC games) are the ones "forcing their opinion on others" that we should also like the knock-on effect of more DRM as much as you do. See, it works both ways. The only difference is, those who want a DRM-Free GOG version aren't depriving DRM lovers of the ability to buy a DRM'd Steam version and to throw money at Bethesda's DRM'd CC mods. The opposite certainly isn't true though...

Shallow and straw-man argumentation.

All I read is; "I don't care about the same thing as you so why even let other's discuss or care about it?", which it often comes down to in many threads now without real counter-argument... You're actually doing the very same thing you accuse the other side of without even realizing it (which doesn't comes as a surprise...).

Really?!? Again with this black and white. Seems you take this way too personally, as none here is forcing anyone anything. As I wrote, people should be allowed to discuss topics they care about without being stifled.

Another thing that seems to be trending and something many don't grasp; If I'm being critical of something that my mom does, it does NOT mean I hate her. If you can't understand that concept then maybe you should stay off the internet. ;)

That's not remotely how it works, nor what the issue is at all. Whether you buy Skyrim CC mods in-game or not, the IAP mechanism and DRM are still there in the game and underlying source code because the whole Steam Exclusive Special Edition was coded around in-game monetization. Because of this, Bethesda aren't going to go back and rewrite a significant chunk of the game code just for a GOG release compared to the relative triviality of putting Morrowind & Oblivion here = as simple as removing a CD check. If they were to put in that much effort then every "Unofficial Bug Fix" would have long been an official patch. As Brian said, it's simply too much of a "cash cow" to want to remove. Not buying DRM'd CC mods and "pretending it isn't there" still won't make the game DRM-Free, runnable without the Steam client or increase the likelihood of a GOG version.

As for CC being supposedly "more friendly to modders", I'm really not seeing it. The previous attempt at "paid mods" was already labelled "obscene" due to its inverted 70/30 cut (that's 45% for Bethesda + 25% Steam = 70% both for spending 5 minutes uploading other people's work then sitting on their asses, and only 30% to the mod creator who spent months creating it). The supposed "upgrade" that is Creation Club first of all hides the actual payment modders get behind a Non Disclosure Agreement that all CC creators are forced to sign. And secondly, from what I've heard it involves mostly fixed sums instead of percentages. So if a modder gets paid a one-off sum of $10,000 for making a CC mod that goes on to earn $200,000, the new "cut" is effectively 70% Bethesda / 25% Steam / 5% Modder. And the modder can't even complain about it online for fear of getting sued over NDA related breach of contract claiming that $10k back. Clearly the pinnacle of "community focussed" modding, eh?...

Speaking of being a cash-cow: https://www.game-debate.com/news/30313/bethesda-faces-1-billion-class-action-lawsuit-over-fallout-4-creation-club-controversy

Tell me again how this practice literally benefits "everyone"?

I don't really care anymore, I got skyrim and fallout 4 with microsoft points on the microsoft store for free... they got drm but I did not pay anything so it's ok.
Doom 2016 is the only missing game from bethesda that I would like to play (since there is no drm-free release and it is not on the microsoft store where I can get it for free with points I'll just ignore it until a free release or a drm-free release).

About the CC mods they were not in the game in the first release and if you do not accept the license for them you cannot even use them in-game (but you still can use mods from nexusmods and similar website). I think a gog release with that part disabled and no drm is possible. Skyrim and Fallout 4 are born with no microtransactions in mind so the CC part is not something that bother me (also there are a lot of free mods online, and I usually avoid them anyway).

The only thing that bother me is that they still release the game everywhere but not on gog.
I'm glad there is no good modern game that I'm interested in buying from bethesda... even doom eternal is just the same as doom 2016 just with bad multiplayer so I can ignore it.

If it releases on GOG, great...

... otherwise...

... meh

I understood when gaming was all physical the need for anniversary re-releasing so people can have access to an old title(often on newer hardware). In an era where we can buy digital we've all had access to this game 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Toaster ovens come pre-loaded with Skyrim. What is the point of calling it re-release? Before anyone says "cash grab" is this edition more expensive? Or do they just want to see if people will buy a 9th copy?

They could view this forum and plainly see people like me who want to buy a 1st officially DRM-free copy.