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General discussion (archive)The Inevitable Decline of GOG(98 posts)(98 posts)
(98 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 13, 2009
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Wishbone: Which I think is what people are doing. I have seen no "GOG is teh suck!" posts. Sadly, I have also seen no posts from GOG employees, adressing the issues that people are raising.

Here ya go.
Posted April 13, 2009
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Wishbone: Which I think is what people are doing. I have seen no "GOG is teh suck!" posts. Sadly, I have also seen no posts from GOG employees, adressing the issues that people are raising.
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michaelleung: Here ya go.

Hehe, I don't think a random outsider troll with a single post counts in this context. Show me a similar post from someone who's actually a GOG member, then I'll be up in arms.
Posted April 13, 2009
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michaelleung: Here ya go.
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Wishbone: Hehe, I don't think a random outsider troll with a single post counts in this context. Show me a similar post from someone who's actually a GOG member, then I'll be up in arms.

Picky, picky...
Posted April 13, 2009
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Aliasalpha: What I'm really hoping is that if it does come to the swamped thing, they make the decision to hire more people & maintain excellent service rather than maintain profits and let the serice decline.

To me it's like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
In the case of being swamped with customer support do you...
A) Hire more people (in the current economic atmosphere!?) and inch closer to bankruptcy?
B) Fuck 'em and stay afloat - but potentially alienate your customer base and, again, inch closer to bankruptcy?
Posted April 13, 2009
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cogadh: I disagree. An unexpected problem with a game or two out of over 100 while the service is still in beta is not an indication of a decline, it is just an indication of why the service is still in beta. I was affected by one of the problems (Septera Core) and the response from GOG's support was still as timely and helpful as ever. From my perspective, there has been no decline whatsoever.
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Wishbone: However, we are not talking about a random game or two out of the total of what is available here. We are talking about problems with a much higher percentage of the games released in the past couple of months than has been the case with earlier releases. Also, we are talking about several people experiencing a marked decline in the service of customer support. Yes, the service is still officially in beta, but that should mean a gradual rise in the quality of the service, not the opposite.

Betas don't always work on a steady curve of improvement, there are "bumps in the road", so to speak. I have been a part of beta tests for software in the past where a single update brought the software from near perfection to complete trash, the next one brought it back some, then it got near perfect again, back to trash, etc. That is just the way it works and that is possibly what we are looking at here. However, I don't actually believe that to be the case. I am only aware of two games that have created this idea of a decline: Gorky 17 and Septera Core. Both games did have problems at release and both now have recorded fixes for those problems in their respective support articles. All the other reports of problems in that game testing thread were instigated by that thread and those two games. In most cases the reported problems are either not really bugs (i.e. that's just the way the game functions) or have already been resolved long ago by GOG. The public created the perception of a decline by jumping to a negative conclusion (i.e. GOG is going downhill), then reinforcing it with anecdotal and unrelated "facts" about GOG's quality. The reality is really exactly opposite, the status of GOG is not all that different now than it was, say, a month ago. The fact that no one from GOG has taken the time to respond to some of this is slightly concerning, but not when you consider that they are very likely busy on other subjects right now, such as Site Update 2.
Posted April 13, 2009
My only concern right now is that GOG will become the waste bin of major publishers, sending to GOG only their "meh" old games and keeping their "Good" old games for themselvs, to be sold in retails, just like now... I mean, it's allready happen. Sure, there are some good new games around (Prince of persia, for ex), but the rest of them...
Where are the games in the Top 10, Top 20, or even Top 50 wish list? There soooo many really GOOD old games out there, and all we get are mediocre titles, at best.
Post edited April 14, 2009 by DG
Posted April 13, 2009
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DG: My only concern right now is that GOG will become the waste bin of major publishers, sending to GOG only their "meh" old games and keeping their "Good" old game for themselvs, to be sold in retails, just like now... I mean, it's allready happen. Sure, there are some good new games around (Prince of persia, for ex), but the rest of them...
Where are the games in the Top 10, Top 20, or even Top 50 wish list? There soooo many really GOOD old games out there, and all we get are mediocre titles, at best.

Most of those games in the top 10 are in licensing limbo/hell. I am quite positive that GOG is well aware that we want them but can't get them just yet due to the legal morass that is the gaming industry.
Posted April 13, 2009
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cogadh: Betas don't always work on a steady curve of improvement, there are "bumps in the road", so to speak. I have been a part of beta tests for software in the past where a single update brought the software from near perfection to complete trash, the next one brought it back some, then it got near perfect again, back to trash, etc. That is just the way it works and that is possibly what we are looking at here.

This takes me back to my MMORPG days playing Everquest. New patches would routinely break things or have people falling through the bottom of the world and getting stuck, which could waste many hours of their time. A lot of times your best bet was to just stay away for a few days after a new patch, because the patches were gigantic and even the insta-fixes, of which there might be many, were gigantic. So a two hour download on Monday didn't mean you wouldn't have another one on Wednesday. Often I'd just wait for Wednesday and save myself that extra two hours.
It's definitely the case that attempts at improvement don't always succeed, or don't always do so without mucking something up somewhere else, unexpectedly. But the main thing is that they're at least attempts. Some people/companies fail less because they are less ambitious or scrupulous; you just see them slowly, smoothly, silently decline into a bad place. I think you have to accept that failure is part of the price of success and just hope everyone's heart (or brain) is in the right place. Eventually all those fails can add up to a massive win, even those there may be bitching and doubt along the way, some of it pretty justified.
Posted April 13, 2009
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cogadh: Betas don't always work on a steady curve of improvement, there are "bumps in the road", so to speak. I have been a part of beta tests for software in the past where a single update brought the software from near perfection to complete trash, the next one brought it back some, then it got near perfect again, back to trash, etc. That is just the way it works and that is possibly what we are looking at here.
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Blarg: This takes me back to my MMORPG days playing Everquest. New patches would routinely break things or have people falling through the bottom of the world and getting stuck, which could waste many hours of their time. A lot of times your best bet was to just stay away for a few days after a new patch, because the patches were gigantic and even the insta-fixes, of which there might be many, were gigantic. So a two hour download on Monday didn't mean you wouldn't have another one on Wednesday. Often I'd just wait for Wednesday and save myself that extra two hours.

Reminds me of Operation Flashpoint. That was the first game I ever owned where I'd get the patch to see what fun new bugs they'd made for us.
IL2 has some fun patch issues as well, you can record tracks of your battles but they saved not as videos or similar but as text with a list of the control inputs. Then a new patch would come out, change the flight model of a plane or 2 and after a minute or 2 the tracks were totally out of sync, sometimes hilariously so.
Posted April 13, 2009
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cogadh: I am only aware of two games that have created this idea of a decline: Gorky 17 and Septera Core. Both games did have problems at release and both now have recorded fixes for those problems in their respective support articles.

Remember, what you are aware of, and what is actually the case, is not necessarily the same. You were doing quite well, up until this point, but then...
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cogadh: All the other reports of problems in that game testing thread were instigated by that thread and those two games. In most cases the reported problems are either not really bugs (i.e. that's just the way the game functions) or have already been resolved long ago by GOG. The public created the perception of a decline by jumping to a negative conclusion (i.e. GOG is going downhill), then reinforcing it with anecdotal and unrelated "facts" about GOG's quality. The reality is really exactly opposite, the status of GOG is not all that different now than it was, say, a month ago.

I'm sorry cogadh, but this is pure, unadulterated fanboyism. In my mind, I see you with your fingers in your ears going "La-la-la-la-la, I can't hear you! GOG is perfect! No other state of existence is possible!"
Let me give you an example of my experience. I assure you that it is 100% accurate. I bought Messiah. I immediately found out that the game was basically unplayable for me, due to massive performance issues. I checked the Messiah forum, and saw that lots of other people had reported this issue. The thread in question ended with a GOG employee suggesting that people report this to support. A good piece of advice, and I don't know why noone had done so yet. I immediately made a support ticket for the issue, including a dxdiag from my machine. On march 25th, support suggested that I update my graphics drivers (always a favourite) and that I switch off T&L. I tried both of these things, and none of them made any difference. I wrote back to support the same day that this was the case. On march 31st, having heard nothing from support yet, I wrote them again, asking if that was the only suggestion they had. And that's it. It's now April 13th, and I still haven't heard a peep from them.
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cogadh: The fact that no one from GOG has taken the time to respond to some of this is slightly concerning, but not when you consider that they are very likely busy on other subjects right now, such as Site Update 2.

Now you're talking sense, except the part about it being okay because they're probably busy. The absolute worst thing a company can do to its customers, is shutting off communications in times of doubt.
Posted April 13, 2009
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cogadh: The fact that no one from GOG has taken the time to respond to some of this is slightly concerning, but not when you consider that they are very likely busy on other subjects right now, such as Site Update 2.
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Wishbone: Now you're talking sense, except the part about it being okay because they're probably busy. The absolute worst thing a company can do to its customers, is shutting off communications in times of doubt.

I have to agree with this.
Also I can't agree that any customer should care or even take into account that there is whatever a "Site Update 2" is. How a website looks or functions is irrelevant to whether your game is working. Those are separate issues and may well be handled by different people. (Designing and coding websites and troubleshooting game software/wrangling with software publishers can require different skill sets.) It's no comfort or bonus worth waiting for if you can't play your game but sooner or later you find the website looks prettier or lets you use your choice of skins or something. It wouldn't be to me anyway and I'd be borderline pissed off if I got a product that wasn't working and instead of getting it fixed, had a company rep try to foist off some lame excuse like that on me.
It reminds of when I used to have to ride the Hawaii and Los Angeles city busses to school(same tactic both places) and the seats were all torn up and the airconditioners broken down and the windows wouldn't work, but every so often you'd see the transportation utility give the buses a beautiful paintjob on the outside and then spend a ton of money advertising how modern, clean, and comfortable the ride was. Boy did we passengers despise those commercials and tactics!
Posted April 13, 2009
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cogadh: I am only aware of two games that have created this idea of a decline: Gorky 17 and Septera Core. Both games did have problems at release and both now have recorded fixes for those problems in their respective support articles.
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Wishbone: Remember, what you are aware of, and what is actually the case, is not necessarily the same. You were doing quite well, up until this point, but then...
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cogadh: All the other reports of problems in that game testing thread were instigated by that thread and those two games. In most cases the reported problems are either not really bugs (i.e. that's just the way the game functions) or have already been resolved long ago by GOG. The public created the perception of a decline by jumping to a negative conclusion (i.e. GOG is going downhill), then reinforcing it with anecdotal and unrelated "facts" about GOG's quality. The reality is really exactly opposite, the status of GOG is not all that different now than it was, say, a month ago.

I'm sorry cogadh, but this is pure, unadulterated fanboyism. In my mind, I see you with your fingers in your ears going "La-la-la-la-la, I can't hear you! GOG is perfect! No other state of existence is possible!"
Let me give you an example of my experience. I assure you that it is 100% accurate. I bought Messiah. I immediately found out that the game was basically unplayable for me, due to massive performance issues. I checked the Messiah forum, and saw that lots of other people had reported this issue. The thread in question ended with a GOG employee suggesting that people report this to support. A good piece of advice, and I don't know why noone had done so yet. I immediately made a support ticket for the issue, including a dxdiag from my machine. On march 25th, support suggested that I update my graphics drivers (always a favourite) and that I switch off T&L. I tried both of these things, and none of them made any difference. I wrote back to support the same day that this was the case. On march 31st, having heard nothing from support yet, I wrote them again, asking if that was the only suggestion they had. And that's it. It's now April 13th, and I still haven't heard a peep from them.
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cogadh: The fact that no one from GOG has taken the time to respond to some of this is slightly concerning, but not when you consider that they are very likely busy on other subjects right now, such as Site Update 2.

Now you're talking sense, except the part about it being okay because they're probably busy. The absolute worst thing a company can do to its customers, is shutting off communications in times of doubt.

Its not "fanboyism" at all, it is simple sociology. One person makes a statement, true or not, others back that statement up with an anecdotal, perception distorted "facts", mob mentality starts to take over and suddenly GOG's quality is on the decline. I would also suggest that your own experiences, just as mine, are not indicative of the service as a whole, i.e. what you are aware of and what is actually the case are not necessarily the same. The only difference is both you and I have had different levels of negative and positive experiences to date, which may be coloring our overall conclusions. Objectively speaking, the truth is really somewhere in the middle, which is why GOG's quality is really no different today than it was before.
As for the communication thing, my experiences with GOG to date allow me to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being. While Site Update 2 may not be occupying the entire GOG team, it is an example of the fact that they do have a lot going on right now, and not just with the website development. For all we know, the support group is focusing on some of the specific problems people are having right now and will be producing some solutions very soon. I'm reminded of the performance problems they had with MDK when it first released. It took them a little while (about two weeks or so), during which GOG was quite silent, but they eventually released a whole new download for the game, which included the software rendered version that corrected virtually all the performance issues. I see no reason to doubt that they will continue to do the same kinds of things with other issues whenever possible (for now).
Post edited April 13, 2009 by cogadh
Posted April 13, 2009
To add to Cogadh's statement, I like to think that the silence of support usually means they are aware of the problem and are currently working on it as best and as fast as they possibly can without rushing out some cobbled solution that may cause more problems than it fixes.
My experience with support has been nothing but satisfactory so far and, unless they are replaced by pod people, I expect it to be so later down the line.
Posted April 13, 2009
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cogadh: Its not "fanboyism" at all, it is simple sociology. One person makes a statement, true or not, others back that statement up with an anecdotal, perception distorted "facts", mob mentality starts to take over and suddenly GOG's quality is on the decline. I would also suggest that your own experiences, just as mine, are not indicative of the service as a whole, i.e. what you are aware of and what is actually the case are not necessarily the same. The only difference is both you and I have had different levels of negative and positive experiences to date, which may be coloring our overall conclusions. Objectively speaking, the truth is really somewhere in the middle, which is why GOG's quality is really no different today than it was before.

You are trying to have it both ways here, which doesn't work. You can't say, "It can't be determined from your or my experience how GOG is doing" and then say, "Therefore, GOG is doing just as well as ever." You've asserted that you don't have the knowledge to judge, implied that judging is impossible anyway, and then made a judgment anyway.
FWIW I don't have a stake in this discussion and am not dissatisfied with GOG myself at this point. I have no idea whether they're any better or worse than ever. I've only tried to play a few of the games I've bought, and they worked fine.
I'm open to the idea that GOG's service may become worse, or in fact better over time though, and think valid evidence like Wishbone's waiting two weeks without a response on his ticket is a legitimate complaint. How representative it is of GOG's service, I have no idea. When I had a problem, it took 2 to 4 days to get answers on a few back and forths on my ticket, which wasn't great, but wasn't terrible either.
Posted April 13, 2009
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JudasIscariot: To add to Cogadh's statement, I like to think that the silence of support usually means they are aware of the problem and are currently working on it as best and as fast as they possibly can without rushing out some cobbled solution that may cause more problems than it fixes.
My experience with support has been nothing but satisfactory so far and, unless they are replaced by pod people, I expect it to be so later down the line.

I would imagine trying to get some of these games working well for the majority is a tough process, and I appreciate their efforts.
However, what Wishbone might appreciate is a little message telling him that they are working on the problem, but it's taking a long while to sort out. Rather than silence.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)The Inevitable Decline of GOG(98 posts)(98 posts)
(98 posts)