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General discussion (archive)The E3 2013 thread.(760 posts)(760 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 13, 2013
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wodmarach: The games run diskless the 24 hour phone home is to stop you playing a game you traded in upping it to a week or 2 will let people do this but stops them just installing them offline then trading in the same day and playing for ever
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Elenarie: Aha. Wouldn't it have been "better" to just require activation on installation, thus locking a game to an account, and then designing some kind of system that would allow people to transfer the games to other people's accounts (with say a max activations per license (each new activation rendering the old one useless)... 3 or 5 or whatever)?

A buys a game. = 1 activation.
A sells the game to GameSpot (called B). = 2 activations.
B sells the game to C = 3 activations.

Enabling users to trade in their games, only a limited number of times, without requiring the console to call home.
MS's system is actually pretty clean,
You take your game into a store with the trade in system (apparently it's a pc with connection to the xbox cloud)
They scan your disc in and your account loses it's key
They then resell the disc with a new activation in place,
(No fee is paid by the user for this MS's cut is supposedly rent on the equipment/for access and the publisher gets a cut at resale time.)

Retailers are grumbling a little since it means they no longer get say $20 profit on a resale of a new game and now get ~$18-19 instead, publishers are happy because they get a cut of used sales... Customers are complaining loudly because it stops ebay resales and because some sites are claiming you'll have to pay a fee when you trade in your game.

MS also apparently lets you share your library with upto 10 people with the only limit being only 1 person can use a particular game at a time, they also from what I can work out get your gold access too as the 10 people are set as family members
Posted June 13, 2013
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Elenarie: Well, you can always validate the licenses when the console comes back online. And since you cannot install games without being online, one would either have to keep playing the games he has installed forever or go online to install another game that he would want to play.
I think what they are specifically trying to avoid is someone buy a game day one, installing it, going into offline mode, then selling it for $50 and keeping it installed on his system for a month or more until he buys another game. With a game like Skyrim someone could theoretically pay $10 to have that game on their system for months, being entertained enough with it to not have to go online to install anything else.

This might be a paranoid fear, it would be hard to say without testing it out, but it's obviously what they are afraid of. They couldn't go all in like Steam and get rid of used forever, either because of corporate ties to Gamestop or fear of the reaction, so they invented this crazy license sharing system that necessitates a constant check of your licenses' status.

Feels like swerving to avoid a pothole and slamming into a tree, if you ask me.
Posted June 13, 2013
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wodmarach: The games run diskless the 24 hour phone home is to stop you playing a game you traded in upping it to a week or 2 will let people do this but stops them just installing them offline then trading in the same day and playing for ever
You forgot to say that this also stops people without a decent internet connection from playing games in their U$499 console.
Posted June 13, 2013
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wodmarach: Retailers are grumbling a little since it means they no longer get say $20 profit on a resale of a new game and now get ~$18-19 instead, publishers are happy because they get a cut of used sales... Customers are complaining loudly because it stops ebay resales and because some sites are claiming you'll have to pay a fee when you trade in your game.
You're too naive. Who will pay the fee charged by Microsoft from the retailer? The guy who buys the fucking second-hand game. And why do i have to take it to an "authorized retailer"? Why can't i just sell it to someone else without having to go through the middle man (the retailer, in this case)? Do you think Microsoft will charge a cheap fee? They will artificially control the second-hand market because they're the ones who set the fees on retailers, thus making the second-hand market nearly useless. In the end, it's the consumer who will pay more. It won't stop retailers from getting huge profits.
Posted June 13, 2013
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wodmarach: The games run diskless the 24 hour phone home is to stop you playing a game you traded in upping it to a week or 2 will let people do this but stops them just installing them offline then trading in the same day and playing for ever
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Neobr10: You forgot to say that this also stops people without a decent internet connection from playing games in their U$499 console.
your saying your internet connection is so bad it's regularly offline for 25+ hours at a time?
Posted June 13, 2013
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wodmarach: your saying your internet connection is so bad it's regularly offline for 25+ hours at a time?
If it goes down for whatever reason it might take more than 24h for my ISP to repair it. especially if it happens on weekends. And why can't i play my U$499 console when my internet is down? There is no reason for this.
Posted June 13, 2013
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wodmarach: Retailers are grumbling a little since it means they no longer get say $20 profit on a resale of a new game and now get ~$18-19 instead, publishers are happy because they get a cut of used sales... Customers are complaining loudly because it stops ebay resales and because some sites are claiming you'll have to pay a fee when you trade in your game.
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Neobr10: You're too naive. Who will pay the fee charged by Microsoft from the retailer? The guy who buys the fucking second-hand game. And why do i have to take it to an "authorized retailer"? Why can't i just sell it to someone else without having to go through the middle man (the retailer, in this case)? Do you think Microsoft will charge a cheap fee? They will artificially control the second-hand market because they're the ones who set the fees on retailers, thus making the second-hand market nearly useless. In the end, it's the consumer who will pay more. It won't stop retailers from getting huge profits.
MS is charging a FLAT fee to the retailers but seriously show me a used game less than 6 months old that isn't within $5 of a brand new copy already... what's even funnier is games that have online passes where the retailer doesn't drop the price enough to cover the cost of that pass and people buy them cause the sticker price is lower...
MS has said that the fee is also a % allowing the retailer to sell at any price btw retailers loose MAYBE 6% of their profit margin to the fee.
We also don't actually know MS's intended digital resale system (which they have announced btw but no details yet) which lets you sell your game yourself through the console. You can also give away your access permanently for 0 fee to another person.

Also really you think the customers will buy second hand games if they are priced higher?BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
In the UK the few companies that currently do resales get 30-40% profit off their resales, Game for example will sell games(less than 6 months old) traded in for within 10% of current retail they pay ~50% of retail for the game in most cases (games traded within 14 days of launch may get as high as 70% still leaving 20% profit and they would be losing 6% of that 20% or... 1.2%... real huge amounts)
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wodmarach: your saying your internet connection is so bad it's regularly offline for 25+ hours at a time?
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Neobr10: If it goes down for whatever reason it might take more than 24h for my ISP to repair it. especially if it happens on weekends. And why can't i play my U$499 console when my internet is down? There is no reason for this.
You do know the 24 hours isn't locked in stone yet btw It's the pre E3 number yes but it has a little * next to it as do a lot of the restrictions saying "subject to change". The limit is a side effect of allowing digital resales and discless play sure it could and probably will be longer but for discless play it's a trade off
Post edited June 13, 2013 by wodmarach
Posted June 13, 2013
Hideo Kojima says that he would like to bring Metal Gear Solid 5 to PC one day:
http://games.on.net/2013/06/bringing-metal-gear-solid-5-to-pc-not-a-priority-at-the-moment/

And here's a teaser for Goodbye Deponia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsE9lNDtb_M
Post edited June 13, 2013 by SCPM
Posted June 13, 2013
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wodmarach: You do know the 24 hours isn't locked in stone yet btw It's the pre E3 number yes but it has a little * next to it as do a lot of the restrictions saying "subject to change". The limit is a side effect of allowing digital resales and discless play sure it could and probably will be longer but for discless play it's a trade off
I really doubt they can extend that timeframe much without requiring the disc to be in the drive to play games. That is the whole reason the 24 hour check exists.
Posted June 13, 2013
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Neobr10: You forgot to say that this also stops people without a decent internet connection from playing games in their U$499 console.
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wodmarach: your saying your internet connection is so bad it's regularly offline for 25+ hours at a time?
It's not just that side that can have problems. I can't wait for hackers to bring their servers down, that'll be one helluva laugh and is inevitable. Imagine if you will, a PSN-like downtime on a console that won't work at all without that service.
Posted June 13, 2013
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wodmarach: You do know the 24 hours isn't locked in stone yet btw It's the pre E3 number yes but it has a little * next to it as do a lot of the restrictions saying "subject to change". The limit is a side effect of allowing digital resales and discless play sure it could and probably will be longer but for discless play it's a trade off
I don't see how discless play is at all an advantage. Couldn't you just have the regular disc version on retailers and a digital version for sale online? Which apparently is exactly what is going to happen, so if playing from a disc is such nuisance why not just buy the digital version instead?
Posted June 13, 2013
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DaCostaBR: I don't see how discless play is at all an advantage.
You should have seen the Bioware forums when Dragon Age 2's DRM was announced. The vast, vast majority were extremely happy they got rid of the disc check in exchange for an online activation.
Posted June 13, 2013
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wodmarach: We also don't actually know MS's intended digital resale system (which they have announced btw but no details yet) which lets you sell your game yourself through the console. You can also give away your access permanently for 0 fee to another person.
Oh wait, when did Microsoft say that their online resale system would be completely free? Plese show it to me, because i really doubt it. The whole point of these restrictions is to give publishers some money on every second-hand copy sold, so why the fuck will they make it free? Seriously, that doesn't make sense. Why can't they allow users to sell their physical games without having to go to authorized retailers then? Why?

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wodmarach: Also really you think the customers will buy second hand games if they are priced higher?BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
But that's the fucking point. Now that Microsoft controls the fees for used games they'll kill the second-hand market. This is exactly what they want.

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wodmarach: You do know the 24 hours isn't locked in stone yet btw It's the pre E3 number yes but it has a little * next to it as do a lot of the restrictions saying "subject to change". The limit is a side effect of allowing digital resales and discless play sure it could and probably will be longer but for discless play it's a trade off
"Subject to change" is PR BS for me. Until they change it, it's 24 hours. That's the information we have right now. I'm discussing facts here, not wild speculations taken out of nowhere. If they change it, good for them, but they still haven't, even after the massive criticism after the Xbox reveal last month.
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Cormoran: It's not just that side that can have problems. I can't wait for hackers to bring their servers down, that'll be one helluva laugh and is inevitable. Imagine if you will, a PSN-like downtime on a console that won't work at all without that service.
I'll be there with a popcorn when it happens. Seriously, no server is 100% fail proof. Servers could go down, get attacked by hackers and everything. Live servers did go down a few times already. Not to mention Diablo 3 and Simcity server issues.
Post edited June 13, 2013 by Neobr10
Posted June 13, 2013
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wodmarach: your saying your internet connection is so bad it's regularly offline for 25+ hours at a time?
I would say most of my console playing has happened on my grandparrent's house and on the flat I rented with some friends during university. Neither had any internet connection whatsoever.
Posted June 14, 2013
Wow Nintendo said something smart:

http://www.gamespot.com/e3/nintendo-devs-concerned-over-used-sales-should-make-better-games-6410228/

http://www.gamespot.com/e3/miyamoto-says-publishers-should-see-game-ownership-like-a-toy-company-6410237/
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)The E3 2013 thread.(760 posts)(760 posts)
(760 posts)