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J_Darnley: I can't believe the number of steam apologists on this site/forum!
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amok: I do believe that people who actively dislike / hate / can't get on with Steam (DRM) is a minority (although a very vocal minority, as all extremist :) are...). Even on this forum. The reason for this is, I think, that most people don't really care about DRM at all, as long as it is not draconian. I believe most people comes here for the games, not necessarily DRM free games. (and this forum)
*raises hand* I'm here for the drm-free and the games. If a game is on Steam but also on gog, I'm going to go with the gog version. With that said, at least with Steam they do a reasonably good job of trying to compete with free. I may not agree with some of their policies and tying a game to a client, but they don't strike me as being the spawn of Satan of gaming.

While I believe that there are some legitimate problems with Steam that may be worth discussing, but from what I'm seeing they usually devolve to the same talking points. By now most people have already made up their minds concerning Steam. Bring in a new point, and maybe this will be worth discussing again.
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Thunderstone: While I believe that there are some legitimate problems with Steam that may be worth discussing, but from what I'm seeing they usually devolve to the same talking points. By now most people have already made up their minds concerning Steam. Bring in a new point, and maybe this will be worth discussing again.
So much agreed to this.
Frankly, while I agree that there is no excuse for blind hatred (especially when Steam has plenty of legitimate flaws that warrant criticism), I can sympathise with the frustration some of these people feel. It's hard to hold a discussion regarding Steam on other forums, beacuse any criticism of Steam and/or Valve Corporation is immediatelly met with hostility from Steam fanatics.

Now, you might say that there are fanatics with any issue (and they are certainly present on the anti-Steam side as well) and that this is hardly unique to Steam, which is correct. But the problem is that Steam fanatics make it a policy to try and shut down any discussion regarding Steam's and/or Valve Corporation's flaws, beacuse having a non-positive opinion of Steam is considered to be a mortal sin. Honestly, I don't think most of these people would be anywhere near as upset with Steam if their opinion wasn't constantly demeaned and marginalised in other places.

There are some posters here who are frustrated with the amount of "Steam Hate" threads. Multiply that frustration by a hundred and you get the idea how people like the OP must feel when trying to express an opinion regarding Steam on other forums. It's perfectly alright if someone likes Steam and what it offers. But no matter how much you may like something, nothing should ever be above criticism.

Personally, while I have my fair share of issues with Steam, I do recognise why other people like it and I do, at the very least, tolerate it. I understand that, in the current industry climate, there is still too much opposition to DRM-free gaming and that some people cannot be convinced to let go of DRM, even if the only thing that it really offers them is a false sense of security.

The rise of GOG and the increasing number of DRM-free games gives me hope for the future; at the end of the day, time makes more converts than reason. But until time does its job, Steam is about as good of a compromise as we're going to get.
Post edited January 14, 2013 by Gandos
Origin is just a fucking fraud and has to be strictly ignored, while Valve are just retards, who want me to send them my CD-key physically to the US in order to redeem my Half-Life. :D
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Gandos: Frankly, while I agree that there is no excuse for blind hatred (especially when Steam has plenty of legitimate flaws that warrant criticism), I can sympathise with the frustration some of these people feel. It's hard to hold a discussion regarding Steam on other forums, beacuse any criticism of Steam and/or Valve Corporation is immediatelly met with hostility from Steam fanatics.
this goes both ways - it is impossible to have any discussion regarding steam, because it is always also meet by very vocal and hostile anti-steam fanatics - many times saying the exact same things over and over again, which in several cases turn out to be wrong or inaccurate... the 'extremists' in both camps are just as as each other.
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Gandos: Frankly, while I agree that there is no excuse for blind hatred (especially when Steam has plenty of legitimate flaws that warrant criticism), I can sympathise with the frustration some of these people feel. It's hard to hold a discussion regarding Steam on other forums, beacuse any criticism of Steam and/or Valve Corporation is immediatelly met with hostility from Steam fanatics.

Now, you might say that there are fanatics with any issue (and they are certainly present on the anti-Steam side as well) and that this is hardly unique to Steam, which is correct. But the problem is that Steam fanatics make it a policy to try and shut down any discussion regarding Steam's and/or Valve Corporation's flaws, beacuse having a non-positive opinion of Steam is considered to be a mortal sin. Honestly, I don't think most of these people would be anywhere near as upset with Steam if their opinion wasn't constantly demeaned and marginalised in other places.

There are some posters here who are frustrated with the amount of "Steam Hate" threads. Multiply that frustration by a hundred and you get the idea how people like the OP must feel when trying to express an opinion regarding Steam on other forums. It's perfectly alright if someone likes Steam and what it offers. But no matter how much you may like something, nothing should ever be above criticism.

Personally, while I have my fair share of issues with Steam, I do recognise why other people like it and I do, at the very least, tolerate it. I understand that, in the current industry climate, there is still too much opposition to DRM-free gaming and that some people cannot be convinced to let go of DRM, even if the only thing that it really offers them is a false sense of security.

The rise of GOG and the increasing number of DRM-free games gives me hope for the future; at the end of the day, time makes more converts than reason. But until time does its job, Steam is about as good of a compromise as we're going to get.
I don't think I could have said it better myself.

I support GOG for the very same reason.

People look at this thread, and see a Steam-hate thread. I can't deny that's what it is, but I am also expressing my satisfaction and my support for GOG's DRM-free revolution. Nobody seems to notice that half...
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Gandos: Frankly, while I agree that there is no excuse for blind hatred (especially when Steam has plenty of legitimate flaws that warrant criticism), I can sympathise with the frustration some of these people feel. It's hard to hold a discussion regarding Steam on other forums, beacuse any criticism of Steam and/or Valve Corporation is immediatelly met with hostility from Steam fanatics.
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amok: this goes both ways - it is impossible to have any discussion regarding steam, because it is always also meet by very vocal and hostile anti-steam fanatics - many times saying the exact same things over and over again, which in several cases turn out to be wrong or inaccurate... the 'extremists' in both camps are just as as each other.
While I agree that anti-Steam extremists are bad as well, I don't (entirely) agree that it goes both ways. If that were the case, people wouldn't be coming here specifically to complain about Steam.

The fact that they do shows that they don't get to speak their mind in other places and that those places are generally lopsided towards the "pro-Steam" side of things.
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Gandos: While I agree that anti-Steam extremists are bad as well, I don't (entirely) agree that it goes both ways. If that were the case, people wouldn't be coming here specifically to complain about Steam.
From what I have seen, it is only on SPUF, where it is the case, or SteamGifts, but there most are steam users. On other gaming forums out there, yes, it is exactly the same, and the same thread are made there.
Post edited January 14, 2013 by amok
I guess it's mostly about luck. If you ran into the traps and Steam fucked you over at least once, you started to hate it. Otherwise, if you are lucky, you have a collection there and the buggy, bloated software might annoy you sometimes but that's it.

Truth is, the DRM for single-player is not that bad. Steam supplies some without any DRM except some easily editable config file entries. At least the English versions DRM can easily be circumvented, too.
My feelings towards Steam are this.

I signed up for it and got some games. I admit I was weary from the start of having everything tied to a single provider on what was traditionally an open platform. Thankfully it seems other AAA publishers are more willing to open their own digital storefronts now despite the protests of your average "No steam no buy!" forum knuckle dragger. From what I've heard even ones like UPlay and Origin are decent now. But for Steam, I used it, had issues with offline mode and an account lock that left doubt in the back of my mind, but overall it was smooth most of the time. Thankfully over time, most of the games I "bought" had become available in DRM free form, or were already DRM free from buying elsewhere. I had already started using Steam far less anyways before they did the EULA lock out. Since then I haven't made a purchase through Valve on Steam.

Them hiding behind the subscription excuse to lock people out of their games unless they accept a new EULA was something I considered underhanded. I feel the same with Nintendo's way of locking digital purchases to the hardware they were bought on. Until they change that, I won't consider getting a digital game if I buy a new Nintendo console. If other companies can have account systems that let you use stuff offline and in single player without restrictions, Valve can to. Them being people's heroes for releasing 2 and 2/3rd Half Life games over 10+ years doesn't give them a free pass to do whatever they wish as a distributor in my book.

I'm sure eventually something new will come along I really want to play that is Steam only and I'll have to reinstall it again. When it does I will make sure to pay for it elsewhere like Amazon or direct from the publisher's website instead of through Steam where Valve gets a cut. For now my gaming habit is fed plenty between my 360 and PC distributors like GOG.
I've never liked Steam for one simple reason. When you buy a game you have to download an enormous file to be able to play it. Now in my case my PC is old so the new titles don't work but if I had a new PC why would I buy a digital download that I can play through Steam when I can buy the PC game from the store and have the physical game. It's more of an E-Store than cloud gaming.

I'm an avid OnLive user, and they are restructuring and the previous CEO did kinda leave it in shambles but I enjoy OnLIve and i've purchased many games with them over the past year or so. I even have the Micro Console to play with a controller on the TV. The downside, I can't play anything offline so My internet has to work oh and some games are not ported completely. For example I can't play local co op on LOTR War In The North. The new CEO has made a move to eliminate that, by making the developers port the game themselves rather than to have OnLive do it. Anyway I guess I just wanted to say Steam sucks.

I have bought games from here for 1 simple reason, GOG has the oldies I love and it's DRM. I probably wouldn't buy new games here (Like if Hitman would come out here I'd skip it) but stuff like Indie games or just games you can't find elsewhere i'd buy it here and it's been great.
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Fictionvision: My feelings towards Steam are this.

I signed up for it and got some games. I admit I was weary from the start of having everything tied to a single provider on what was traditionally an open platform. Thankfully it seems other AAA publishers are more willing to open their own digital storefronts now despite the protests of your average "No steam no buy!" forum knuckle dragger. From what I've heard even ones like UPlay and Origin are decent now. But for Steam, I used it, had issues with offline mode and an account lock that left doubt in the back of my mind, but overall it was smooth most of the time. Thankfully over time, most of the games I "bought" had become available in DRM free form, or were already DRM free from buying elsewhere. I had already started using Steam far less anyways before they did the EULA lock out. Since then I haven't made a purchase through Valve on Steam.

Them hiding behind the subscription excuse to lock people out of their games unless they accept a new EULA was something I considered underhanded. I feel the same with Nintendo's way of locking digital purchases to the hardware they were bought on. Until they change that, I won't consider getting a digital game if I buy a new Nintendo console. If other companies can have account systems that let you use stuff offline and in single player without restrictions, Valve can to. Them being people's heroes for releasing 2 and 2/3rd Half Life games over 10+ years doesn't give them a free pass to do whatever they wish as a distributor in my book.

I'm sure eventually something new will come along I really want to play that is Steam only and I'll have to reinstall it again. When it does I will make sure to pay for it elsewhere like Amazon or direct from the publisher's website instead of through Steam where Valve gets a cut. For now my gaming habit is fed plenty between my 360 and PC distributors like GOG.
Not trying to question or disagree with you, but I would like to ask you about a few things.

How do you feel about console gaming?

Once, I used to be an avid fan of consoles like the PS2 and old Xbox. I have crates full of original games. Then, my Xbox broke down, and I realized, there was no one who would fix it, at least not without a ridiculous service charge.

And that's the thing about consoles. They die. They can last a few years, with good care taken, maybe they'll last 5 years, 6 years. But they will die out in the end. For PCs, they also break. But you can always replace them with better parts. For consoles, if it's gone, it's gone.

I personally gave up on console gaming because of that.

But there is another irritating thing that I have to note about Wii. Territorial/regional lockouts. Like I can't play a farging Jap game on a US console. Regional lockouts for games are almost as stupid as DRM itself.

Personally, I just try to stick to the PC as much as I can. But what about you? Would you still be willing to deal with the disadvantages that a console has? Such as dying out eventually, not just in terms of hardware, but game releases as well? Or not being able to play a game with a different region?
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mechgouki: How do you feel about console gaming?
I'm fine with console gaming overall. My main platform is my PC, but there are games that simply don't make it to PC that I want to play. This has dwindled a lot over the years, but games like 2d platformers and fighting games used to be almost console only. Also, at least through the previous console generations, I knew emulators would come out eventually so when my console died I could still play my games on my PC. Today everything from the Wii and PS2 back is emulated fairly well. My Playstation 1 died long ago, but I can still play all the games on my PC today. I know that will slow down considerably as once you get past the Wii, consoles get far more complicated and will take much more to emulate.

The hard drive in my xbox 1 died, but with how easy the console became to softmod thanks hackers and tinkerers I was able to fix it myself and it's still hooked up beside my TV today. I realize doing things like this isn't an option for everyone, but I didn't mind doing it. Software and hardware mods also made me not care about region restrictions. I have a large collection of import Saturn and Dreamcast games that are all playable thanks to mod chips or boot discs. I know eventually my 360 will die, but I'll deal with it whenever that does. My disc games will still work in the next one I get, and I'd hope xbox live will still be around for me to re-download my games.

With the way things are headed in the console world, being locked out of games, even disc ones if your hardware breaks down seems like it may happen. If new consoles introduce lock outs or restrictions I don't like I won't consider getting any of them. I have time to see how they go as I never buy a console until it hits $200 or less.
Post edited January 14, 2013 by Fictionvision
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Tantrix: >so many steamtards infesting GoG

Meep, I'm out.
You punctuated GOG wrong.
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koima57: Oh look that thread again.. Flash news, even GOG games you buy are not your own, they are and remain the intellectual property of their authors just as any entertainment purchase you could ever make, boxed or digital..
But that's wrong. I own what I purchase, but I don't own the copyright to it. People get those things confused way too often.