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DarrkPhoenix: if you try to return the product and they refuse to issue a refund then you can always contest the charge with the credit card company and let them duke it out with the retailer.

Doesn't really help with an actual retail store and paying with cash.
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Delixe: Doesn't really help with an actual retail store and paying with cash.

Thus the benefit of paying with a credit card if you think you might need some leverage against the merchant in the future. Basically whenever there's a dispute the first person to have to involve the courts is in the worse position, so it's best to have a much leverage and as many options as possible that don't involve having to take the matter to court.
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DarrkPhoenix: so it's best to have a much leverage and as many options as possible that don't involve having to take the matter to court.

Not everyone has that luxury. Thats why PC gamers are being treated in a criminal way by the law.
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Delixe: Disagree to it? Ok. Well you are kind of fucked because the store will not give you a refund as it's an opened PC game.

Exactly. So unless you think that consumer rights miraculously go right out of the window with the mere mention of the games industry then clearly there are several legal issues right there. More if you really delve into the EULAs themselves.
If EULAs and retail practices are against the law then... well. Enough said.
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Navagon: Exactly. So unless you think that consumer rights miraculously go right out of the window with the mere mention of the games industry then clearly there are several legal issues right there. More if you really delve into the EULAs themselves.
If EULAs and retail practices are against the law then... well. Enough said.

I don't get your point. To get a refund you would have to spend a considerable amount of money on a law case against the retailer. Our consumer rights are squashed because we can't afford the legal fees.
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Navagon: The only way it would even be possible is if they kept hold of all the pre-Steam executables. Which isn't impossible, I suppose. But whatever the case it doesn't look to me like Steam is going anywhere.

Putting aside the debate of whether it would actually happen or not... The easiest way, and most likely one, to remove the Steam DRM wouldn't be removing the Steam client, but simply patching the client to stop sending activation checks and requests to the activation servers whenever you start Steam and whenever you start a game. Indeed, removing Steam entirely wouldn't be wise as that would render any local backups (created with the back up tool) completely useless.
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Delixe: I don't get your point. To get a refund you would have to spend a considerable amount of money on a law case against the retailer. Our consumer rights are squashed because we can't afford the legal fees.

Here they're planning on dropping fees for small claims. If that happens then it should turn the tide. Alternatively there's the political, rather than legal approach. But our new government seems to only want to crush the progress the previous government made with the games industry.
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Navagon: Here they're planning on dropping fees for small claims. If that happens then it should turn the tide. Alternatively there's the political, rather than legal approach. But our new government seems to only want to crush the progress the previous government made with the games industry.

You and me know the new ConLib Government is not going to allow that. Games publishers will be allowed to take the piss because the Conservatives don't care and the Libs have sold their soul for power. If fees are dropped it would be a step forward but I can't see it happening as it would allow the little people a voice. That can't be allowed.
Post edited July 17, 2010 by Delixe
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Delixe: If fees are dropped it would be a step forward but I can't see it happening as it would allow the little people a voice. That can't be allowed.

It was a Labour initiative and one of the few they had at the time which I actually liked. Plus there's the fact that we're in penny pinching mode for the next few years so I don't see that being taken further at this point in time.
BFG forums
you can't link any website URL ( not even youtube videos) , only URL's of BFG allowed
you can't even mention other DD sites
Post edited July 18, 2010 by lackoo1111
RARRRRGHHHHH just realized Metro 2033 comes with Steamworks. WHYYYYYYY!
Wait. It does? So it requires Steam to work?
Woo! I wanted to buy the game but I wasn't sure if I could use it with Steam. :D
I'm an achievement whore, shut up. :P
Post edited July 18, 2010 by Foxhack
Overheard in Best Buy: "The World of Warcraft mouse is crap. I'm already on my fifth one."
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Mentalepsy: Overheard in Best Buy: "The World of Warcraft mouse is crap. I'm already on my fifth one."

I almost bought the mouse a few times. I might still do, it looks awesome and I don't even play WoW.
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Mentalepsy: Overheard in Best Buy: "The World of Warcraft mouse is crap. I'm already on my fifth one."

Some people will never learn.