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lowyhong: This thread needs to be bumped with a link to this thread:
http://forums.aceteam.cl/index.php?showtopic=897&view=findpost&p=8087
My main issue with these Steam defenders is that they can't seem to accept the unlikely happening. Their logic is, if something bad has yet to happen to them, it means it will never happen. Not only is it a strawman argument, it annoys me to see incidents where those who really have a case to build are not being paid heed to by the rest of the herd.
I have absolutely nothing against people who like Steam, but that guy who insinuated that my motives are questionable is a fucking moron.

Fanatic Steam defenders.
Nothing brings you better laugh than them.
I sent a support ticket to Steam (possibly the worst idea I've ever had). Grisly details here, and more to come in the near future (whenever they feel like replying to my question).
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michaelleung: I sent a support ticket to Steam (possibly the worst idea I've ever had).

You need to wait at least a week. Maybe 2.
I actually sent perhaps my 15 or so complaint to them regarding their ineptness when it comes to regional restrictions a few days ago. I expect I'll never get a decent response from them. Perhaps I should try the BBA or which ever such organisation can handle complaints for a US based company.
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michaelleung: I sent a support ticket to Steam (possibly the worst idea I've ever had).
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bansama: You need to wait at least a week. Maybe 2.
I actually sent perhaps my 15 or so complaint to them regarding their ineptness when it comes to regional restrictions a few days ago. I expect I'll never get a decent response from them. Perhaps I should try the BBA or which ever such organisation can handle complaints for a US based company.

Thing is, I wrote that I received a reply today and a sent a question on Thursday (lightning fast by their standards). The PROBLEM is their reply is utterly and completely horseshit.
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michaelleung: Thing is, I wrote that I received a reply today and a sent a question on Thursday (lightning fast by their standards). The PROBLEM is their reply is utterly and completely horseshit.

In their defense, they probably just misinterpreted your (admittedly vague) question.
I don't know exactly how regional restrictions work, but I am going to assume that you are going to download the censored version if you are in Germany. So they assumed that you grabbed it in Germany (or got an install from a friend who is of the German persuasion) and told you to essentially just redownload everything.
Hell, it is quite possible that the helper-monkey just skimmed through and gave you a generic response.
What you need to do (rather than scream and complain about Steam everywhere) is to send them another ticket (can you reply to the same trouble ticket?) and clarify your problem. Steam can't help you unless you give them a chance (admittedly, they still probably won't be able to, but whatever :p). Keep in mind how many people are sending in trouble tickets (especially because it seems like Riddick is a fiasco right now).
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michaelleung: Thing is, I wrote that I received a reply today and a sent a question on Thursday (lightning fast by their standards). The PROBLEM is their reply is utterly and completely horseshit.

I gifted my friend Half-Life during its anniversary (10th?) for 1$ and he told me his game was censored - no blood, etc.
The fun is, that the support did actually help him and he has uncensored version now.
But why didn't they help you? Yeah, it was about a year ago, but I doubt that Steam support could become such a farce since then.
Yeah, I've sent them a reply going all, "what the hell?" but from what I have heard the basic gist is this:
1. You get a copy of L4D/other censored game in Germany OR a version that is distributed and cleared for release in Germany (say, a retail German version) but you are not in Germany
2. You register the key. If you go into Steam and look at the Your Account button on the Steam storefront when you are logged in, you can see what region your version is.(for example it says Left 4 Dead -DE)
3. Even if you download the game in Botswana or whatever, it's still the German censored version because it's been tied to your account. Steam doesn't know (and doesn't care) where you live, but if it says it's the German version, then that's the one you get.
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michaelleung: Thing is, I wrote that I received a reply today and a sent a question on Thursday (lightning fast by their standards). The PROBLEM is their reply is utterly and completely horseshit.

Just be careful not to show it to a Steam crusader. He'll likely start to make inane accusations on your lack of patience, or that nobody's perfect, or some other funny claim.
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michaelleung: Just be careful not to show it to a Steam crusader. He'll likely start to make inane accusations on your lack of patience, or that nobody's perfect, or some other funny claim.
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lowyhong: Well if I keep this to my blog (population: ONE) and the GOG forums I doubt any Steam crusaders will come across it and find out where I live and murder me in my sleep.
Maybe I'm being a jerk about it all, but I have never found a single time where I was satisfied with Steam support. Ever. This is no exception.
Post edited January 25, 2010 by michaelleung
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michaelleung: Maybe I'm being a jerk about it all, but I have never found a single time where I was satisfied with Steam support. Ever. This is no exception.

Well, nobody has ever really gotten a satisfactory result (admittedly, any time we bother Steam it is for something big). But you still have to give them a chance.
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michaelleung: Well if I keep this to my blog (population: ONE) and the GOG forums I doubt any Steam crusaders will come across it and find out where I live and murder me in my sleep.

You'd better start praying that no Steam fanatics are such devoted to their holy case that they google for possible infidels. They could start a mass crusade...
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michaelleung: Well if I keep this to my blog (population: ONE) and the GOG forums I doubt any Steam crusaders will come across it and find out where I live and murder me in my sleep.
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klaymen: You'd better start praying that no Steam fanatics are such devoted to their holy case that they google for possible infidels. They could start a mass crusade...

Calm down, it's not like they're militant terrorists or anything.
*reads Steam forums*
Oh. Right.

Actually, no. No such claim has ever been made in an official capacity. There is an email reply supposedly floating around where Gabe hypothosizes that they MAY deactivate the authentication servers, but there is no proof whatsoever to back up the validity of that email reply. For all we know, it was created by someone else and never originated from Valve.

The response I was thinking of was part of an interview actually - I read that interview several years ago and it also defended other aspects of Steam. God knows which interview though - I think it was on Gamespy or IGN or something like that but Googling turned up nothing (Valve have gotten way too much press to find that exact article). I also read a forum post from a Valve employee (one of the big guys over there) stating a similar thing so it's not some vague email. I read both with my own eyes. A forum post and an interview may not be the best sources to quote but still ... .

As for 3rd party DRM activation, none of that is done by Steam's authentication servers, but by the client itself. The systems are completely separate and not even dependent on the content servers. So again, IF anything happened which resulted in Steam vanishing and IF the requirements for online activation via Steam were removed, the activation systems for 3rd party DRM such as SecuROM would remain as is. Either being done automatically on first run or via the activation request pop-ups -- none of which are controlled by the online components of the Steam client or infrastructure.

You seem to forget that Steam skips a vital bit which makes the above untrue: Steam does the installation and authentification for you at the moment - it auto inserts the cd key for activation after downloading the game. Remove Steam and tell me what you'll have? You'll have an installed but unactivated game with no way to activate it. And guess when SecuROM games are activated? During installation. And guess what you wouldn't be able to do? Install the game since you have no installation files - you got a pre-installed folder minus registry settings or anything else that gets installed during installation. All that is handled by Steam prior to you first playing a game.
Do you know what will happen when you try to run these games? You'll get an error that the game has not been activated and that's it. You won't even have the cd key even IF it lets you activate because Steam contained that cd key. But you won't be able to activate the game without Steam simply because you don't have the option of doing so unless you were to reinstall it which, without Steam, is not possible. I hope that makes it clear. Unless they release software that lets you manually activate a game AFTER installation, the current DRM will not do as you claim.
Post edited January 25, 2010 by Red_Avatar
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michaelleung: Thing is, I wrote that I received a reply today and a sent a question on Thursday (lightning fast by their standards). The PROBLEM is their reply is utterly and completely horseshit.

That's just the cookie cutter reply sent in the hopes of shutting you up. It'll take at least a week or two to get an actual reply =)
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michaelleung: I sent a support ticket to Steam (possibly the worst idea I've ever had). Grisly details here, and more to come in the near future (whenever they feel like replying to my question).

I suspect it might have more been the fault of G2Play, considering the site seems to list keys for the censored version only. The fix suplied by Steam works for when Steam incorrectly determines your own location, but there's no way of them converting one game into another, as the L4D cut version and L4D uncut version are two seperate SKUs. G2Play work by mass-buying cheap boxed copies from the Asian/European markets and selling the keys on from there.
I'll agree that they didn't appear to read (or understand, as it wasn't in truthfulness the most detailed explanation of the problem) your question though.