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jjsimp: Anyone else sick of hearing about the racist LA Clippers owner? I hate to say it but racism will never be a thing of the past, and harping on some comments a LA Clippers owner made to his girlfriend that he was pissed about is not news. People say all kinds of things that they don't mean when they are having arguments.
Get over it already, there is and always will be assholes in the world with lousy views of racism, sexism, etc.
It's not their views of people that matter per se. It's their ability and willingness to perpetuate against them due to those views.

Have you heard the nine and a half minute audio?
It can be argued that what Mr. Sterling said reflects the views still kept quiet about in society. Some people call it the "plantation mentality".
What's important is that these views come out into the open so people can publicly address them and stop believing the lie that racism/sexism/genderism/ableism is a thing of the past or simply nonexistent.

Views are a powerful tool.
Adolf Hitler used negative views of Jews to his political benefit. Jewish Holocaust, anyone?
Europeans used negative views of Africans to their economic benefit. Maafa (African Holocaust).

To make it clear, what you're saying is on par with the following:
"So what if employers don't want to hire women, Saudi Arabians, Jews, goths, or LGBT members? It's their business, they can hire whoever they want. Get over it already, there is and always will be assholes in the world with lousy views."
"Anyone else sick of hearing about Neo-Nazis protesting against Jews, Hispanics, and anyone who's not blonde living in 'their country'? I hate to say it, but racism will never be a thing of the past, and harping on the discomfort and stress caused by it is not news."

Correct me if I'm wrong about anything previously stated.
Post edited April 30, 2014 by yarow12
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tinyE: I care because there is no excuse for this type of ignorance. Saying there will always be people like this is a cop out and it lets those people off the hook. I'm not suggesting we all take to the streets and march, riot, and or stage sit-ins but so long as there is one person of the billions of us on this planet who harbors feelings like this guy, then there is reason to care.
Thankyou!
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Emob78: From comments I've been reading here and elsewhere, it seems to me that freedom of speech doesn't mean much to people any more. If they can fine, ban, or fire someone for their beliefs (no matter how extreme or intolerant) how far away are we from putting people in jail for their beliefs or speech? Oh, that's right, they do that already in some European countries, the middle east, and in China.

The best way to handle something like that is let the free market decide. If everyone thinks the guy is a racist jerk, don't buy tickets and go to his team's games, don't buy his team's merchandise, and let his company wither on the vine. Eventually he'll get the message and retire or sell. Banning him from the sport or throwing fines at him does nothing for smoothing over racial tensions, and only increases the threats that we all face from the intolerant majority. How long ago was it that the majority decided that blacks couldn't eat at white restaurants or date white people or even sit with white people in church? Was that right? No. At the same time, it's also hypocrisy to claim to defend racial equality by refusing to allow others have their own viewpoints. And again, political correctness has done nothing to solve racial or ethnic problems, it only brushes them under the rug.

This is also divide and conquer tactics at its finest. That economy that teeters on the edge, that little blow up in the Ukraine that threatens to erupt into world war three? The never ending attack on our liberties and privacy rights by government? Yeah, those aren't important issues, let's just spend all our time arguing over stupid words from some stupid basketball owner.
Well people have the freedom to fire and ban people and it's good that they have this freedom. But once the government steps in and starts fining people or putting people in prison for saying this or that, then this country is no longer the USA but some American style North Korea.
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monkeydelarge: Someone said he was fined and being fined for saying something goes against freedom of speech because only the government can fine you. If he wasn't fined but just fired or banned or whatever then obviously none of his rights were messed with.
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OldFatGuy: Okay, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Like your new avatar. Or, at least, it's the first time I noticed that one.
I don't understand. I agree with what you said. I was just explaining why my previous post was talking about freedom of speech.
Post edited April 30, 2014 by monkeydelarge
Freedom Of Speech protects you from the government punishing you from what you say;but it was never intended to protect you from peopleing having a bad opinion of you because of what you say.
Stirling insulted one of the NBA's biggest cusjtomers bases. Of course the NBA is going to want to get Stirling out of there. It'a a case of business parnters forcing out a partner whose behavior is hurting the business as a whole,Happens all the time.
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Emob78: From comments I've been reading here and elsewhere, it seems to me that freedom of speech doesn't mean much to people any more. If they can fine, ban, or fire someone for their beliefs (no matter how extreme or intolerant) how far away are we from putting people in jail for their beliefs or speech? Oh, that's right, they do that already in some European countries, the middle east, and in China.

The best way to handle something like that is let the free market decide. If everyone thinks the guy is a racist jerk, don't buy tickets and go to his team's games, don't buy his team's merchandise, and let his company wither on the vine. Eventually he'll get the message and retire or sell. Banning him from the sport or throwing fines at him does nothing for smoothing over racial tensions, and only increases the threats that we all face from the intolerant majority. How long ago was it that the majority decided that blacks couldn't eat at white restaurants or date white people or even sit with white people in church? Was that right? No. At the same time, it's also hypocrisy to claim to defend racial equality by refusing to allow others have their own viewpoints. And again, political correctness has done nothing to solve racial or ethnic problems, it only brushes them under the rug.
This kind of view interests me.

You believe in freedom of speech but you don't believe a private organisation has the freedom to decide who can or cannot be a member?

When Sterling joined the NBA, he did so knowing that he would have to abide by their rules. In return, he received hundreds of millions of dollars over the years. Why is that you believe he should be allowed to break the rules but that the people who let them into their association don't have the right to expel him for doing so.

In my view:

1. Sterling has the freedom to say whatever he likes.
2. The sponsors have the right to sponsor whoever they like, subject to honouring their contractual obligations.
3. The players have the right to play for whoever they like, subject to honouring their contractual obligations.
4. The fans have the right to pay to watch whichever teams they like.
5. The Association has the right to admit or remove whoever they like, provided they do so in accordance with their Constitution (which everyone has agreed to).

Isn't that freedom for everyone?
In typical fashion, the press has blown race relations way the fuck out of proportion. Sterling is well over 80 yrs old, he grew up in a different era. My dad and grandpa used to wisecrack about other races all the time. Was it rude and insensitive? Yes. Did they wish death to all minorities? Hell no. Some of these idiots want to see his head on a spike, as if racism is the worst fucking offense a human can commit. I don't condone his views, but the incessant whinging and victim mindset whenever something like this happens in Murica is pathetic.
Post edited May 01, 2014 by scampywiak
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scampywiak: In typical fashion, the press has blown race relations way the fuck out of proportion. Sterling is well over 80 yrs old, he grew up in a different era. My dad and grandpa used to wisecrack about other races all the time. Was it rude and insensitive? Yes. Did they wish death to all minorities? Hell no. Some of these idiots want to see his head on a spike, as if racism is the worst fucking offense a human can commit. I don't condone his views, but the incessant whinging and victim mindset whenever something like this happens in Murica is pathetic.
Yeah, it's like a few hateful racist words out of someone's mouth and that someone is seen as someone who is just as bad as a rapist or serial killer.

Like ruining an old man's life is going to make the world a better place. Like ruining this guy's life is going to make him look himself in the mirror and think...am I really such a horrible person? No, ruining this old man's life is just going to make him hate American society until the day he dies. And most likely, this will make him more racist, out of spite.
Post edited May 01, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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monkeydelarge: Yeah, it's like a few hateful racist words out of someone's mouth and that someone is seen as someone who is just as bad as a rapist or serial killer.

Like ruining an old man's life is going to make the world a better place. Like ruining this guy's life is going to make him look himself in the mirror and think...am I really such a horrible person? No, ruining this old man's life is just going to make him hate American society until the day he dies. And most likely, this will make him more racist, out of spite.
1. Bloke has a history of racist actions as well as words.
2. Bloke is worth almost $2 billion. Not sure how his life is ruined.
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monkeydelarge: Yeah, it's like a few hateful racist words out of someone's mouth and that someone is seen as someone who is just as bad as a rapist or serial killer.

Like ruining an old man's life is going to make the world a better place. Like ruining this guy's life is going to make him look himself in the mirror and think...am I really such a horrible person? No, ruining this old man's life is just going to make him hate American society until the day he dies. And most likely, this will make him more racist, out of spite.
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htown1980: 1. Bloke has a history of racist actions as well as words.
2. Bloke is worth almost $2 billion. Not sure how his life is ruined.
A certain bloke was recently 'urged' to resign from Mozilla for backing prop 8. He exercised free speech and got fired. I'm sorry, but the shit Sterling said is to be filed firmly under free speech. Not hate speech or hate crime. And if he had a known history with this, why didn't the all noble Silver take action earlier? The entire sports world is a rotten kettle of fish if you ask me.
Post edited May 01, 2014 by scampywiak
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monkeydelarge: Yeah, it's like a few hateful racist words out of someone's mouth and that someone is seen as someone who is just as bad as a rapist or serial killer.

Like ruining an old man's life is going to make the world a better place. Like ruining this guy's life is going to make him look himself in the mirror and think...am I really such a horrible person? No, ruining this old man's life is just going to make him hate American society until the day he dies. And most likely, this will make him more racist, out of spite.
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htown1980: 1. Bloke has a history of racist actions as well as words.
2. Bloke is worth almost $2 billion. Not sure how his life is ruined.
So what if he has a history of saying racist things. Not like he was in the KKK and was involved in the murder of a black person or something like that. Many times, during my life, people have said some very hateful things to me for no good reason. Should I track down all these people and ruin their lives? OR would that be overreacting?

And your right, his life is not ruined but only because he is worth so much money. If a normal person got punished like this, then their life would be ruined. I'm sure in this insane society, many people's lives are ruined everyday for saying something that could been seen as racist or sexist or whatever. Not everyone is worth $2 billion after all... People need to chill the fuck out and not take everything so seriously. People need to drop the pitch forks and torches...
Post edited May 01, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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htown1980: 1. Bloke has a history of racist actions as well as words.
2. Bloke is worth almost $2 billion. Not sure how his life is ruined.
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monkeydelarge: So what if he has a history of saying racist things. Not like he was in the KKK and was involved in the murder of a black person or something like that. Many times, during my life, people have said some very hateful things to me for no good reason. Should I track down all these people and ruin their lives? OR would that be overreacting?

And your right, his life is not ruined but only because he is worth so much money. If a normal person got punished like this, then their life would be ruined. I'm sure in this insane society, many people's lives are ruined everyday for saying something that could been seen as racist or sexist or whatever. Not everyone is worth $2 billion after all...
My point wasn't that he had a history of saying racist things, my point was that he has a history of racist actions (I only mentioned racist words because you referred to a "few hateful racist words" like that was all he had done. I don't think his actions should be ignored is all I am saying.
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monkeydelarge: So what if he has a history of saying racist things. Not like he was in the KKK and was involved in the murder of a black person or something like that. Many times, during my life, people have said some very hateful things to me for no good reason. Should I track down all these people and ruin their lives? OR would that be overreacting?

And your right, his life is not ruined but only because he is worth so much money. If a normal person got punished like this, then their life would be ruined. I'm sure in this insane society, many people's lives are ruined everyday for saying something that could been seen as racist or sexist or whatever. Not everyone is worth $2 billion after all...
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htown1980: My point wasn't that he had a history of saying racist things, my point was that he has a history of racist actions (I only mentioned racist words because you referred to a "few hateful racist words" like that was all he had done. I don't think his actions should be ignored is all I am saying.
What racist actions? Can you enlighten me?
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htown1980: 1. Bloke has a history of racist actions as well as words.
2. Bloke is worth almost $2 billion. Not sure how his life is ruined.
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scampywiak: A certain bloke was recently 'urged' to resign from Mozilla for backing prop 8. He exercised free speech and got fired. I'm sorry, but the shit Sterling said is to be filed firmly under free speech. Not hate speech or hate crime. And if he had a known history with this, why didn't the all noble Silver take action earlier? The entire sports world is a rotten kettle of fish if you ask me.
I totally agree. Sterling and Eich should absolutely have the freedom to say whatever they wish. I absolutely agree with that statement. Nobody should stop them from saying what they want. I am glad when they do so.

I also think that a private company absolutely has the right to decide who they employ. I think individuals have the right to decide whether they want to protest someone who says something they disagree with or boycott or stop doing business with a person who says something they disagree with. I think everyone should have the freedom to do such things.

I don't think anyone has the right to say that a private company or association or individual cannot dismiss someone because that person made a statement that they consider adversely affects their business. I don't think you or I or the government has the right to say to a company they have to employ such people. To me, that is an unnecessary intrusion of the government on the free market.

As to why the NBA didn't do something earlier, that is in my view, an indictment on the NBA and the owners of the other teams, and the LA Clippers fans. That Sterling is a dirt bag should be no surprise to anyone.
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scampywiak: A certain bloke was recently 'urged' to resign from Mozilla for backing prop 8. He exercised free speech and got fired. I'm sorry, but the shit Sterling said is to be filed firmly under free speech. Not hate speech or hate crime. And if he had a known history with this, why didn't the all noble Silver take action earlier? The entire sports world is a rotten kettle of fish if you ask me.
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htown1980: I totally agree. Sterling and Eich should absolutely have the freedom to say whatever they wish. I absolutely agree with that statement. Nobody should stop them from saying what they want. I am glad when they do so.

I also think that a private company absolutely has the right to decide who they employ. I think individuals have the right to decide whether they want to protest someone who says something they disagree with or boycott or stop doing business with a person who says something they disagree with. I think everyone should have the freedom to do such things.

I don't think anyone has the right to say that a private company or association or individual cannot dismiss someone because that person made a statement that they consider adversely affects their business. I don't think you or I or the government has the right to say to a company they have to employ such people. To me, that is an unnecessary intrusion of the government on the free market.

As to why the NBA didn't do something earlier, that is in my view, an indictment on the NBA and the owners of the other teams, and the LA Clippers fans. That Sterling is a dirt bag should be no surprise to anyone.
I agree that everyone should have the freedom to do what they want including the freedom to fire and ban people for whatever reason. You don't like cookies? YOU ARE FIRED! <- I find it fucked up but I would support this to support freedom. But it's still insane in my book to treat a guy who said some racist hateful words recently and said some racist hateful word in the past as the leader of the KKK, then fire and ban him. I would like to see society be more forgiving and rational. Right now, our society is very uncivilized. Yes, we should speak out against people who say racist hateful words of course but if you go on some crusade against this guy like he is the source of all evil in this world, there is something seriously wrong with you...
Post edited May 01, 2014 by monkeydelarge
I find myself woefully indifferent.