Although that's hardly a benefit for the Steam games that also use a 3rd party DRM solution. That just means an additional layer of DRM (and thus an additional point of possible failure) compared to a version from the publisher or from retail.

There are pros and cons to both models (from a consumer POV, mostly cons of course). A single DRM solution for all your games means that there is less chance that an individual game won't work due to DRM problems. On the other hand, it also means that if one game doesn't work, none of them do.

As it's plainly obvious that you're being deliberately obtuse, this discussion ends here. I really have no time or patience for this PC master race bullshit.

Dude I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

Sony explicitly said that there will be no block to singleplayer games, which means you can sell, trade, lend your copy and do whatever you want with it. But there could be restritions to online games, such as online-passes, which is exactly the same policy as the PS3. Nothing changed.

I spent some time at Gamestop last night in a section of the store I've never been, the console game section. Looked at all the pre-owned PS3/PS2 and 360 games selections. Because I either intend to get a Playstation 3 or plan to try to run some PS3 games on the PS3 emulator which got released. And I really want to see if lettmon would really eat his hat.

;o]

It has, Microsodft confirmed that renting and loaning will NOT be available at launch. Do you know what "not available" means?
Sony has already confirmed that there will be no kind of DRM in singleplayer games. The only thing that publishers can limit is the ability to play online, like online-passes. It's exactly the same policy as the PS3. Nothing has changed, so stop making stuff up.

I can make a game that is single-player in every regard, and still lock it to an account. The whole single-player vs multi-player vs online debate nowadays doesn't mean anything.

Correction, people don't give a shit about simple DRM systems, which steam has become. Boy oh boy, it wasn't to begin with! Which is the reason Apple has BS DRM on thier devices, but because the operation and content usage is sooo easy to manage, people don't care. Same for android too. My galaxy note 2 has drm restrictions on apps, and backing them up, but because google uses it servers for app data and transferring, and the fact you can jst DL all the apps on every reformat of your device automatically, the convenience outweighs the negatives.

But, the companies I just listed above have proven they have enough skill to be nimble, relevant and foresee market trends, consumer satisfaction and simplicity and a priority for thier products.

Ballmer's MS, especially in recent years, is the opposite. Add to that continuing confusion over it's policies and DRM, plus the complicated nature of it, and I do really see a big public backlash, not gamer, but public.

Casual and semi hardcore gamers will be pissed when it comes to the Xbone. We are gamers, we have learnt to put up will bullshit.

But the average joe?? Their lives are far too 'busy' ,they have no need of MS, they'll fuck of MS and buy a ps4 once they get wind of how easy it is to operate.

jamyskis, take a look at the Used Diablo 3 link you posted. Half of those sellers say "Cd-key used" or "Cd-key may no longer be valid". So it is a game box (plus manual, plus dvd), but no game.
No idea about HL2 and CoD, since they don't mention anything about the code.

Seriously, your Microsoft fanboyism is out of control. Sony has EXPLICITLY said there will be no mechanism to lock the game to your account for PHYSICAL copies. The only thing publishers could do is make it digital only or make it multiplayer-only and require an online pass. And even then, it's up to publishers. On the Xbox One EVERY single fucking game in the market will be tied to your account. Every single one of them. Publishers can't even decide to make their game DRM-free.

Can you see the difference now? Take off your fanboy googles so you can finally see the reality. And stop twisting the facts.

http://www.gamefront.com/sony-third-party-drm-refers-to-playing-used-games-online-only

"The Online Pass program for PlayStation first-party games will not continue on PlayStation 4. Similar to PS3, we will not dictate the online used game strategy (the ability to play used games online) of its publishing partners. As announced last night, PS4 will not have any gating restrictions for used disc-based games."

You're fucking kidding me with that post, right? Jesus, some people on these forums are just... wow. Where the crap did I mention anything even remotely about Microsoft?

A game can be designed to be played alone, thus being a fucking single-player game, and still have background code streamed and processed on a remote fucking server.

Or now what would that call it, freaking online game that you play alone?

EDIT: Until someone sends a game on the PlayStation network, for it to be certified with 100+ pages of documentation explaining each failed or successfully passed bulletin point, you and pretty much the rest that think everything is so pretty-pink on the PS4 regarding DRM can go suck it.

Why did Ubisoft abandon their always-online DRM then if it worked so well? Why did 2K drop SecuROM in Bioshock Infinte (and used Steamworks only instead of adding another DRM on top of that)? Even EA dropped SecuROM after the Spore fiasco. That must mean something. Fuck, they even dropped online-passes.

Steam is convenient, the Xbox One isn't. Also, the console "culture" is different than the PC gaming "culture". Console gamers are used to trading in their games, selling them, sharing among friends.

DRM does matter. That's why every single KS project over there offers a DRM-free game.

I know you are only speaking for the majority, but you keep using absolutes like "every time", "everyone", "always", etc.

Syntactically, that makes your statements false. I have not and will not play Skyrim until I can play it DRM-Free on the PC. I will claim there are very few fans of Morrowind or Oblivion that loved those games more than I. I am in the minority, but my place of community acceptance has no bearing on why I buy games and it never will. SOME people (albeit an insignificant number to Valve, Sony, MS, etc) will not buy products if they don't like the way they work.

I think your statement is near-true, I said it much earlier in the thread, but you are over-exaggerating your case.

I hope people do vote more with their wallets... its the only way to make real suggestions as a consumer.

@Elenarie

Sony has clearly stated that they will take no measure to restrict games. They are treating the PS4 like the PS3. EA and others have stated that for now they aren't looking into restricting used games. This most likely stems from the massive negative reaction Microsoft has received.

Used Games Good
No Mandatory Online Restrictions
No Check In
Region Free