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General discussion (archive)PS4 Game Loaning(107 posts)(107 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 11, 2013
Gamefront asked Sony and got confirmation that publisher's deciding only counts for online passes.

http://www.gamefront.com/sony-third-party-drm-refers-to-playing-used-games-online-only/

The Online Pass program for PlayStation first-party games will not continue on PlayStation 4. Similar to PS3, we will not dictate the online used game strategy (the ability to play used games online) of its publishing partners. As announced last night, PS4 will not have any gating restrictions for used disc-based games. When a gamer buys a PS4 disc they have right to use that copy of the game, so they can trade-in the game at retail, sell it to another person, lend it to a friend, or keep it forever.
Posted June 11, 2013
SONY really do appear to be the better one this time out. What with the XboxOne announced at 499.99 (geez just say 500.00 already) and SONY not discouraging the reselling of their games or requiring an online DRM check-in to run offline games.

I was going to get a Playstation 3 but with the new PC emulators appearing that play Playstaion 3 games, I think it would be better spent on the Playstation 4 after the price comes down a little.

However I have to hope XBoxOne does a little business too as AMD is the hardware in that machine as well; and I support AMD's endeavours.
Posted June 12, 2013
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u2jedi: I was going to get a Playstation 3 but with the new PC emulators appearing that play Playstaion 3 games...
What?? Link to source? Even PS2 emulation still has problems after 13 years...
Posted June 12, 2013
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u2jedi: I was going to get a Playstation 3 but with the new PC emulators appearing that play Playstaion 3 games...
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lettmon: What?? Link to source? Even PS2 emulation still has problems after 13 years...
http://code.google.com/p/rpcs3/

It doesn't play games to any meaningful extent yet, but it does sufficiently emulate the Cell processor and PS3 architecture to run small homebrew apps.

All great emulators start small. Look how PCSX2 started and where it is today...
Posted June 12, 2013
I would rather play any Sony exclusive than any Ubi or EA game, so I dont really care what the likes of EA do. But people will vote with their wallet, the likes of D3 and Sim City showed the publishers that its a viable marketing strategy and they will abuse the shit out of it if gamers let them.

Its in the hands of gamers now and ...yeah just thinking that makes me realise we are fucked. :)
Posted June 12, 2013
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jamyskis: It doesn't play games to any meaningful extent yet, but it does sufficiently emulate the Cell processor and PS3 architecture to run small homebrew apps.

All great emulators start small. Look how PCSX2 started and where it is today...
I will eat my hat if it plays ps3 games sooner than in 20 years.
Posted June 12, 2013
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F1ach: I would rather play any Sony exclusive than any Ubi or EA game, so I dont really care what the likes of EA do. But people will vote with their wallet, the likes of D3 and Sim City showed the publishers that its a viable marketing strategy and they will abuse the shit out of it if gamers let them.

Its in the hands of gamers now and ...yeah just thinking that makes me realise we are fucked. :)
D3 and SimCity were unique and quite different cases.

D3 was from Blizzard, and you know what Blizzard fanboys are (or were) like. If their lead designer opened up his arsecheeks and shat on the pavement and slapped a Blizzard label on it, they would still lap it up. I don't think maybe other devs could get away with what they did, and I don't think Blizzard would get away with it again. The Blizzard fan community went in assuming that the company had the best of intentions, and came out realising that this wasn't the case. They've lost a shitload of goodwill, something which is apparent on the Blizzard forums if nowhere else. Remember that any sort of criticism of Blizzard was taboo on their forums prior to the release of D3.

SimCity was purchased by a heck of a lot of non-gamers on the strength of the name alone. The fallout in retail stores was as interesting as the actual sales. Our local electronics store had to put up a sign at the customer service desk and next to the boxed copies advising customers that enquiries and complaints had to be directed towards EA, and I went to our local indie games store two days after release (to pick something else up), only to have to wait in a queue of several people all wanting to return their copies of the game.

It's not that most people accepted DRM - it's that they weren't aware of the consequences of it or weren't even aware that such a requirement existed.

Compare this against Command and Conquer 4, a franchise that generally only appeals to the core audience, and sold ridiculously poorly, unlike its predecessors.

In short, if we're fucked, then it's because people just don't understand the issues at hand. But awareness is growing, and if publishers continue down this road, it's going to blow up in their faces.
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lettmon: I will eat my hat if it plays ps3 games sooner than in 20 years.
Based on the progress of PCSX2, I would say that it'll be around six years until some games become really playable.
Post edited June 12, 2013 by jamyskis
Posted June 12, 2013
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F1ach: I would rather play any Sony exclusive than any Ubi or EA game, so I dont really care what the likes of EA do. But people will vote with their wallet, the likes of D3 and Sim City showed the publishers that its a viable marketing strategy and they will abuse the shit out of it if gamers let them.

Its in the hands of gamers now and ...yeah just thinking that makes me realise we are fucked. :)
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jamyskis: D3 and SimCity were unique and quite different cases.

D3 was from Blizzard, and you know what Blizzard fanboys are (or were) like. If their lead designer opened up his arsecheeks and shat on the pavement and slapped a Blizzard label on it, they would still lap it up. I don't think maybe other devs could get away with what they did, and I don't think Blizzard would get away with it again. The Blizzard fan community went in assuming that the company had the best of intentions, and came out realising that this wasn't the case. They've lost a shitload of goodwill, something which is apparent on the Blizzard forums if nowhere else. Remember that any sort of criticism of Blizzard was taboo on their forums prior to the release of D3.

SimCity was purchased by a heck of a lot of non-gamers on the strength of the name alone. The fallout in retail stores was as interesting as the actual sales. Our local electronics store had to put up a sign at the customer service desk and next to the boxed copies advising customers that enquiries and complaints had to be directed towards EA, and I went to our local indie games store two days after release (to pick something else up), only to have to wait in a queue of several people all wanting to return their copies of the game.

It's not that most people accepted DRM - it's that they weren't aware of the consequences of it or weren't even aware that such a requirement existed.

Compare this against Command and Conquer 4, a franchise that generally only appeals to the core audience, and sold ridiculously poorly, unlike its predecessors.

In short, if we're fucked, then it's because people just don't understand the issues at hand. But awareness is growing, and if publishers continue down this road, it's going to blow up in their faces.
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lettmon: I will eat my hat if it plays ps3 games sooner than in 20 years.
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jamyskis: Based on the progress of PCSX2, I would say that it'll be around six years until some games become really playable.
Fair points, but it does show a distinct lack of awareness on the part of gamers that they would just buy these games without knowing the pitfalls ahead of them and that is what scares me about people accepting this excessive kind of DRM being touted by MS. The pre-orders for XB are huge apparently, outstripping the last generations pre-orders significantly.
Posted June 12, 2013
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F1ach: Fair points, but it does show a distinct lack of awareness on the part of gamers that they would just buy these games without knowing the pitfalls ahead of them and that is what scares me about people accepting this excessive kind of DRM being touted by MS. The pre-orders for XB are huge apparently, outstripping the last generations pre-orders significantly.
As I said before it's an easy sale to parents for kids. "Look it does /everything/!!! and when I'm not using it you can use it for the TV!"
Posted June 12, 2013
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wodmarach: As I said before it's an easy sale to parents for kids. "Look it does /everything/!!! and when I'm not using it you can use it for the TV!"
Non-gaming parents are likely to be fairly unimpressed. Why should they buy the Xbone when the TV already does all that for me?
Posted June 12, 2013
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F1ach: Fair points, but it does show a distinct lack of awareness on the part of gamers that they would just buy these games without knowing the pitfalls ahead of them and that is what scares me about people accepting this excessive kind of DRM being touted by MS. The pre-orders for XB are huge apparently, outstripping the last generations pre-orders significantly.
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wodmarach: As I said before it's an easy sale to parents for kids. "Look it does /everything/!!! and when I'm not using it you can use it for the TV!"
Yeah I can see that as well, i dont know alot (anything) about "smart" TV's, but I imagine they could do alot of that XB1 TV remote crap without the console.
Posted June 12, 2013
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F1ach: Fair points, but it does show a distinct lack of awareness on the part of gamers that they would just buy these games without knowing the pitfalls ahead of them and that is what scares me about people accepting this excessive kind of DRM being touted by MS. The pre-orders for XB are huge apparently, outstripping the last generations pre-orders significantly.
Well, DRM has many facets and people's lack of awareness will vary.

Some simply do not understand, or do not want to understand, that the game requires an internet connection. I know that it is difficult to understand this perspective as we on this forum are largely aware of technical issues. For example, they buy a game with the intention of playing it, but believe that the internet connection thang doesn't apply to them, because all they want to do is play on their own. I had trouble trying to explain this to non-gamers in the case of SimCity (some of them did end up buying SC2000 from here in the end, woot!)

Others in turn understand that an internet connection is needed, but don't understand the nature of a server/client system. They believe that just because they have an internet connection, that the game will be indefinitely available.

Others again understand the nature of a client/server relationship but base their purchase on incorrect legal principles. They believe that they will be punished by the law automatically if they shut off their servers (as if the police would come storming in), or believe that the publisher will demonstrate goodwill by providing an offline patch, despite the user agreement that they never read plainly stating the contrary.
Posted June 12, 2013
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F1ach: Fair points, but it does show a distinct lack of awareness on the part of gamers that they would just buy these games without knowing the pitfalls ahead of them and that is what scares me about people accepting this excessive kind of DRM being touted by MS. The pre-orders for XB are huge apparently, outstripping the last generations pre-orders significantly.
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jamyskis: Well, DRM has many facets and people's lack of awareness will vary.
I can see how that would happen, I remember when Half Life 2 came out, you had to have an internet connection (but, just to activate it iirc), which made me buy the console version on the 360 instead, but the staff in Gamestop were very quick to warn me that it needed an internet connection to activate it, but of course you have that interaction in a high street store, not necessarily with an online purchase for a d/l game.
Posted June 12, 2013
I don't know how much evidence you guys need that people do not give a shit about DRM. From Half-Life 2 through Diablo 3 it's been proven an endless number of times. Gamers tend to have solid internet and no one cares about game preservation except us chosen few, they only play new games. It's a complete non-issue for the vast majority.

They do care about Kotaku telling them Xbox lost though. That is where Microsoft's arrogance will hurt them: the media continuing how they have been on the issue.

Also $100 more expensive.
Posted June 12, 2013
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StingingVelvet: <snip>
Since we've been down this road before, I'm going to simply post these links and be done with it:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00006I02Z/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1371028276&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=half-life+2+pc&amp;condition=used

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&amp;_sacat=0&amp;_nkw=modern+warfare+2+pc&amp;_dcat=139973&amp;rt=nc&amp;LH_ItemCondition=4

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00178630A/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1371028520&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=diablo+3+used&amp;condition=used

If you wish to keep deluding yourself that people "don't care" about DRM, be my guest. The evidence I've seen is enough to convince me of the contrary.
Post edited June 12, 2013 by jamyskis
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General discussion (archive)PS4 Game Loaning(107 posts)(107 posts)
(107 posts)