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Fomalhaut30: Sorry, but no. Most Halo games are exactly like you describe. Having to check everywhere for Jackal Snipers or trying to find the cloaked Elite. Halo 4, for example, now has teleporting enemies that can easily end up behind along with flying units that like to run and hide (and can resurrect and heal the teleporters), jump jetting infantry, and wall crawling critters.

I think Halo stands out in the diversity of gameplay required to become proficient at it, especially the need to be able to quickly target and prioritize which enemies need to go down first.
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StingingVelvet: I haven't played Halo 3 and up since they didn't come out on PC but for 1 and 2 I would say you are exaggerating. In either case one series does not change what I have said. Look at modern shooters on average and then play something post Quake 2 but pre-Halo on PC. There is a massive reduction in how much speed, vertical aiming and quick turning is needed to succeed on average.
Halo 1 and 2 still had quite a bit of flying sections along with the necessity of trying to deal with cloaked Elites that could sneak up behind you and snipers hiding out everywhere.

I'm sorry, but you sound (to me) exactly like a PC elitist, despite your statement to the contrary earlier. Have you actually played any shooters on the 360? The ones that I've played (the Cybertron series, Bioshock, Space Marine, Halo, Red Faction - yes, three of those are third person shooters, but still shooters) all require you to be on the ball and be able to adapt quickly. Four of those listed make use of vertical movement (Cybertron has jet mode, Space Marine has jump pack enabled marines, Halo has jetpacks, Red Faction has jetpacks).

I didn't (and still don't) play shooters on the PC because I simply do not care for the mouse + keyboard control scheme. Hate it in fact.
Post edited December 04, 2012 by Fomalhaut30
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Fomalhaut30: I'm sorry, but you sound (to me) exactly like a PC elitist, despite your statement to the contrary earlier. Have you actually played any shooters on the 360? The ones that I've played (the Cybertron series, Bioshock, Space Marine, Halo, Red Faction - yes, three of those are third person shooters, but still shooters) all require you to be on the ball and be able to adapt quickly. Four of those listed make use of vertical movement (Cybertron has jet mode, Space Marine has jump pack enabled marines, Halo has jetpacks, Red Faction has jetpacks).

I didn't (and still don't) play shooters on the PC because I simply do not care for the mouse + keyboard control scheme. Hate it in fact.
I have played damn near every shooter ever released, especially all of them since 1998 or so. I never said they suck either, I said they would have been better if designed for a mouse. BioShock is one of my favorite games of all time but it would have been better with faster enemies, multi-level combat environments and a smaller reticule.

There is a wide gap between "would have been better if" and "sucks" that internet defense squads tend to overlook.
I don't remember if I posted and I'm to lazy to look.

Zelda series
CoD MW2+ (I liked WaW though)
Most Valve games
Goldeneye 64
Halo series
Oblivion and Skyrim (I like Skyrim btw, Oblivion is trash however)
Mario Spinoffs like Mario Party or Mario Kart
MMOs
Final Fantasy series
Fallout 3 (Not a bad game but... meh)
Gears of War series

tired, can't think of anymore, probably nothing surprising...
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Wraith: The entire Half-Life series: Sorry, but I think the Half Life games aren't anything special. Yes, Half Life was revolutionary as a game when it came out, but it's one of those games I start playing only to get incredibly bored with it 2 hours in. Even when it was new. It had frustrating combat, annoying platforming sequences, and a story that really didn't make much sense. And let's not even get started on Xen. HL2 was, again, a good engine, but still, the story and hype over it is something I will never get.
Man, there were times where two hours of PC gaming in one session were perverse and it's probably still bad for your health. It is perfectly fine, if you get bored after two hours. The atmosphere and level-design were really good, with exceptions. It has a good shooter engine and enemies spawn in a less annoying way than in Doom. The monsters and bosses kick ass, the arsenal also.

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Wraith: Halo: This got me in a huge fanboy argument on Youtube, but I stand by it. Halo would have been a better game had it been released on PC/Mac since it would have at least offered more variation on environments. However, after seeing their choice of level design, I doubt it would have made that much of a difference. It's a very lackluster game and I never understood the joy for it when it came out. Note that I am only referring to Halo, not the sequels, as I have only played and beaten the original.
It is pale, indeed. It was originally developed for PC and Mac in 1999 and at that point in time its large world, the physics engine and the level of cooperation possible as well as the graphical details looked almost revolutionary. Then MS bought Bungie and made it an XBOX-exclusive title until until it was ported to the PC 19 months after the original release, in October 2003. It was even after the Battlefield 1942 release. It was just a good, conventional shooter at that point in time.

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Neobr10: I understand all the hate PC gamers have towards Halo, but i really can't understand your argument. How could Halo be a better game if it were a PC exclusive? There aren't that many design changes between a PC and console shooters apart from a few technical choices. Heck, Doom 3 was released on the first Xbox (and it was quite a decent port), same goes for Half Life 2, and these were nearly identical to the PC versions (obviously the Xbox couldn't keep up with PC graphics and frame rates, but overall the games were the same).

To be honest, most of this "blame bad design on consoles" is just BS. As an example, there are many people who blame consoles for the 2 weapon limit in FPS games. Weird thing is that no one complained when Crysis had the 2 weapons limit, and that was a PC exclusive title for a long time.
It mostly depends on what platform a title is originally developed. HL2 and Doom 3 are both PC titles first and were then ported. When it is the other way around, the relative lack of computing power shows up in the game-play. Less enemies appear usually at one point in time. Many functions are not developed due to time-constraints. Sometimes they forget to allow for saving the keyboard-commands or use consolish menu-styles without a mouse cursor.

In Crysis they made that rational two-weapons decision and it worked. Though, many people modded it or just used a cheat.
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Fomalhaut30: I'm sorry, but you sound (to me) exactly like a PC elitist, despite your statement to the contrary earlier. Have you actually played any shooters on the 360? The ones that I've played (the Cybertron series, Bioshock, Space Marine, Halo, Red Faction - yes, three of those are third person shooters, but still shooters) all require you to be on the ball and be able to adapt quickly. Four of those listed make use of vertical movement (Cybertron has jet mode, Space Marine has jump pack enabled marines, Halo has jetpacks, Red Faction has jetpacks).

I didn't (and still don't) play shooters on the PC because I simply do not care for the mouse + keyboard control scheme. Hate it in fact.
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StingingVelvet: I have played damn near every shooter ever released, especially all of them since 1998 or so. I never said they suck either, I said they would have been better if designed for a mouse. BioShock is one of my favorite games of all time but it would have been better with faster enemies, multi-level combat environments and a smaller reticule.

There is a wide gap between "would have been better if" and "sucks" that internet defense squads tend to overlook.
And yet, you say that you haven't played 2/3rds of one of the biggest FPS franchises ever. So forgive me if I have to call bullshit on your first sentence.

Now, maybe I've just been lucky to play shooters that are the opposite of what you state and they are the minority, I don't know. I don't play stuff like Crysis or CoD or Battlefield or FarCry, but the ones that I have experienced all use three dimensional play, multi-level environments, reticles that change depending upon what weapon you are using, and fast/aggressive enemies.

As for your comment about Bioshock, are you forgetting BS2's MP with the multi-level maps, the Spider Slicers, the teleporters and the like?
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Fomalhaut30: I'm sorry, but you sound (to me) exactly like a PC elitist, despite your statement to the contrary earlier. Have you actually played any shooters on the 360? The ones that I've played (the Cybertron series, Bioshock, Space Marine, Halo, Red Faction - yes, three of those are third person shooters, but still shooters) all require you to be on the ball and be able to adapt quickly. Four of those listed make use of vertical movement (Cybertron has jet mode, Space Marine has jump pack enabled marines, Halo has jetpacks, Red Faction has jetpacks).

I didn't (and still don't) play shooters on the PC because I simply do not care for the mouse + keyboard control scheme. Hate it in fact.
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StingingVelvet: I have played damn near every shooter ever released, especially all of them since 1998 or so. I never said they suck either, I said they would have been better if designed for a mouse. BioShock is one of my favorite games of all time but it would have been better with faster enemies, multi-level combat environments and a smaller reticule.

There is a wide gap between "would have been better if" and "sucks" that internet defense squads tend to overlook.
Money-wise it is pointless designing it for a mouse as the potential buyers on consoles is way higher and likelihood of piracy is higher on PC. This is a few of the reasons why consoles get priority over PC by most games company.
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Wraith: I don't think it's a game that deserved to sweep award shows.
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jefequeso: So what is, then?
Portal beat out Skyrim, Witcher 2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, etc. in many 2011 awards. While Portal 2 was fun, I don't consider it a game that offers a really compelling, complicated story that also creates an incredibly complex and believable world. Yes, some people like mindless stuff and just want to jump in, but that doesn't mean I'm going to vote a game like Hotline Miami for GOTY. It has charm, but I just don't feel like it's a game that stacks up in comparison to others or does enough to really make itself outstanding.
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jefequeso: So what is, then?
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Wraith: Portal beat out Skyrim, Witcher 2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, etc. in many 2011 awards. While Portal 2 was fun, I don't consider it a game that offers a really compelling, complicated story that also creates an incredibly complex and believable world. Yes, some people like mindless stuff and just want to jump in, but that doesn't mean I'm going to vote a game like Hotline Miami for GOTY. It has charm, but I just don't feel like it's a game that stacks up in comparison to others or does enough to really make itself outstanding.
So are we talking about Portal 1 or Portal 2? Because Portal 1 was incredibly unique and jaw-dropping when it came out, due to its insanely clever mechanics and fantastic writing.
Post edited December 04, 2012 by jefequeso
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McDon: Money-wise it is pointless designing it for a mouse as the potential buyers on consoles is way higher and likelihood of piracy is higher on PC. This is a few of the reasons why consoles get priority over PC by most games company.
No shit. I didn't say they should have been business wise, just said they would have been better if they were designed around a mouse. This is a simple concept people like to throw BS back at me for saying, but all I meant was what I said.
Mine is Zelda: Ocarina of Time, It's a good game but it keeps getting settled with best game of all time. I also think the story is very bland and the theme just doesn't work with a silent protagonist that can only be identified on the shallowest level, the gameplay is good but nothing that really went the extra mile. It's a good game but there's better and so I think the label of best game of all time is too much.

...and no, Majora's Mask doesn't deserve best game of all time either.