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General discussion (archive)Man installs TV with gun, kills wife(146 posts)(146 posts)
(146 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 03, 2010
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Lou: You are right - Gun Control does not reduce crime. However criminal control would reduce crime. Lets say all gun crimes are a Federal Offense with a mandatory 15 Year Sentance on top of what ever else they are charged with.

Yes, that would be a great idea. Let's not control the weapon, lets control the people who use the weapon. That way criminals are discouraged from committing a gun crime, and citizens get to keep their weapons for protection. Also, I believe in open carry. Do you?
Posted July 03, 2010
The problem with having minimums for crimes is that they can often hurt those that the minimum sentences aren't supposed to apply to. Let's say Arkansas has a law on the book that makes it illegal to fire a gun on Sundays and someone gets busted for breaking that law. That would be a 15 year sentence that neither the Judge nor the Jury would be able to prevent.
Posted July 03, 2010
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Lou: You are right - Gun Control does not reduce crime. However criminal control would reduce crime. Lets say all gun crimes are a Federal Offense with a mandatory 15 Year Sentance on top of what ever else they are charged with.
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sauvignon1: Yes, that would be a great idea. Let's not control the weapon, lets control the people who use the weapon. That way criminals are discouraged from committing a gun crime, and citizens get to keep their weapons for protection. Also, I believe in open carry. Do you?

Yes I do - but with greater freedom comes greater responsibility. One best know what they are doing and be ready to take the consequences for wrong actions. By the way if Bruce Wayne's dad had open carry do you think we would have Batman ;-)
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PoSSeSSeDCoW: The problem with having minimums for crimes is that they can often hurt those that the minimum sentences aren't supposed to apply to. Let's say Arkansas has a law on the book that makes it illegal to fire a gun on Sundays and someone gets busted for breaking that law. That would be a 15 year sentence that neither the Judge nor the Jury would be able to prevent.

Then don't fire your gun on Sunday or Move.
Post edited July 03, 2010 by Lou
Posted July 03, 2010
I shoot almost everyday. Anything, anywhere. Kids, women, animals and sometimes even babies and pregnant women.
Posted July 03, 2010
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Cambrey: I shoot almost everyday. Anything, anywhere. Kids, women, animals and sometimes even babies and pregnant women.

You monster!
Posted July 03, 2010
I know. And I don't even feel bad. What's wrong with me !
Posted July 03, 2010
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Cambrey: I know. And I don't even feel bad. What's wrong with me !

Well, for starters, your French. (I'm just messin with ya)
Posted July 03, 2010
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Lou: You are right - Gun Control does not reduce crime. However criminal control would reduce crime. Lets say all gun crimes are a Federal Offense with a mandatory 15 Year Sentance on top of what ever else they are charged with.

Thats about right in NY state currently. Possessing a loaded weapon is a violent felony max. 15 years and is sometimes upheld. Means if you're in a cab, car or bus with a hidden weapon + bullet nobody claims everyone gets charged. 15 years max for all potentially. Need a good lawyer! If you hold legal right here you'll be a felon soon enough if you carry, because of separate jurisdictions. Mandatory minimums get seen for superstars like Plaxico Burress, who's doing shy under 4 years for shooting himself in the leg! (dumbass) but the average criminal would do more time than him. And the average superstar would do less but he is in the NFL.
Not everyone who wants to protect themselves is being violent. The possession is criminal, but now not needing intent is more harsh considering if defending yourself. With witness and video you get charged. (NY has a history with the vigilantes) Stick your finger in your pocket or use a toy to intimidate someone at a register= the same serious felony. Not a walk in the park so we certainly won't be making nice here with any of our friends in socialist country where I've seen footage once of a Playstation One in a killers cell! (He had nice furniture too) LOL
What's interesting for NY is the Airport cases. There are legitimate business people traveling from states with lax gun laws who fill every obligation when traveling with their firearms with their airline and their own residency who land in NY airport with the weapon all up to ordinance but receive the mandatory class c felony.
Again the most important thing is the youth as they're the most prone to be in trouble, and do the time. Also, hunting isn't a rich man's sport in this area. There's plenty "bad" meaning socially and economically "bad" areas in NY state that have all the hunting. The kinds of towns you can find cocaine in quicker than you can find pot, and generations pass down their parents houses with themselves less income. I wouldn't see it exclusive to the inner city.
Sorry to harangue again, but with so many nationalities here its bringing out a diplomatic side I never knew I had. Just wanna see youtube of someone survive a bear attack instead of going down like the grizzly man!!
Post edited July 03, 2010 by rs2yjz
Posted July 03, 2010
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Gundato: Keep this in mind: A lot of the guns used in "real"* crimes aren't exactly legal. They are either stolen or otherwise illegally obtained. So gun control laws will really only barely dent those. It is a problem of the mentality of the culture, but it is still a problem.

Can we agree that it is much easier to steal a gun if there are guns everywhere for you to steal?
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Azarr: With a larger population, the chance of crime occurring increases. Whether or not the guns increases number of deaths, comparing smaller countries to a larger country, isn't exactly going to prove much.

Yes it is. All relevant statistics are expressed as relative to the number of citizens. So it's perfectly comparable.
Look at this incarceration rate statistic, for instance. It's expressed as the number of people in jail per 100,000 population. As you can see, for every 100,000 Americans, 760 of them are in jail, putting the US squarely in the first place. Denmark, in comparison, comes in at number 177 with 63 people in jail for every 100,000 people living here.
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Gundato: Seriously. Guns don't kill people (but they sure help :p), people kill people. Well, people and camel spiders.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they've got a gun).
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iuliand: I'm just thinking about those cases where some twisted/frustrated kid enters a school and kill around 30 people and in the end kills himself. I have only seen this kind of cases in the US and they lead me to the conclusion that in this respect our law is better. Just that. I don't pretend that my moral is better.

I have to correct you here. There have been incidents like this in both Germany and Finland at least.
Post edited July 03, 2010 by Wishbone
Posted July 03, 2010
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Azarr: With a larger population, the chance of crime occurring increases. Whether or not the guns increases number of deaths, comparing smaller countries to a larger country, isn't exactly going to prove much.
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Wishbone: Yes it is. All relevant statistics are expressed as relative to the number of citizens. So it's perfectly comparable.
Look at this incarceration rate statistic, for instance. It's expressed as the number of people in jail per 100,000 population. As you can see, for every 100,000 Americans, 760 of them are in jail, putting the US squarely in the first place. Denmark, in comparison, comes in at number 177 with 63 people in jail for every 100,000 people living here.

Alright, so maybe I should have waited with the thinking bit until I wasn't tired.
Though I'm sure my point, whatever it was again, is still valid.
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Gundato: Seriously. Guns don't kill people (but they sure help :p), people kill people. Well, people and camel spiders.
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Wishbone: Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they've got a gun).
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iuliand: I'm just thinking about those cases where some twisted/frustrated kid enters a school and kill around 30 people and in the end kills himself. I have only seen this kind of cases in the US and they lead me to the conclusion that in this respect our law is better. Just that. I don't pretend that my moral is better.

I have to correct you here. There have been incidents like this in both Germany and Finland at least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
Quite a few apparently, though there seems to have been a lot more of them in the US.
Posted July 03, 2010
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Gundato: You are a shopkeeper in a bad neighborhood. Hell, let's say you are a 5 foot chinese guy who is rather scrawny. You are clearly easy game for thugs who want to knock over a store. But gasp, you have a legally purchased gun under your counter, and most of the neighborhood thugs know this. So they don't mess with you.

There are other solutions like: alarm system + panic button + intervention team + video surveillance. And I doubt that the "bad neighborhood" model is so common in US in order to make from it a reference point of view.
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Gundato: Yes, you saw a news story and decided to instantly attach nationalistic pride and blame it on a nation you don't like. Simple as that.

These are thing that I never said or imply. I'm sorry if this is what you understood.
Posted July 03, 2010
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stonebro: I ... don't know what to say to this. Except ONLY IN AMERICUH.
http://www.tabloidprodigy.com/?p=15802
Darwin was wrong.
Posted July 03, 2010
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Gundato: You are a shopkeeper in a bad neighborhood. Hell, let's say you are a 5 foot chinese guy who is rather scrawny. You are clearly easy game for thugs who want to knock over a store. But gasp, you have a legally purchased gun under your counter, and most of the neighborhood thugs know this. So they don't mess with you.
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iuliand: There are other solutions like: alarm system + panic button + intervention team + video surveillance. And I doubt that the "bad neighborhood" model is so common in US in order to make from it a reference point of view.

Okay, what is the response time of the police in your country?
Let's do an experiment*!. Go put a shoe box on a counter in your place of living. Now go outside.
Walk in
Go to the room with the shoe box
Point your finger at something
Say "Bang, you are dead"
Grab the shoe box
Walk outside
How long did that take you? Do you honestly expect the police to get there in time?
* By "experiment" I mean one along th elines of Mythbusters or what the crazy serial killer kid and the dude from the car commercials did on Bones. Something with no scientific merit at all, but that looks really fun and drives home a point.
Posted July 03, 2010
I just had a thought about this, do you think we can all get together and file a class action lawsuit against this guy for defamation of our species? Whenever I read things like this I feel deeply ashamed I'm part of the same species
Posted July 03, 2010
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Aliasalpha: I just had a thought about this, do you think we can all get together and file a class action lawsuit against this guy for defamation of our species? Whenever I read things like this I feel deeply ashamed I'm part of the same species

If our demand would be "removing him from our gene pool", then you have my vote.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Man installs TV with gun, kills wife(146 posts)(146 posts)
(146 posts)