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Hey Goggers;

As many of you know, we announced on last Friday that we are going to introduce regional pricing for 3 new games coming up on GOG.com soon. Looking at the amount of reactions (over 3,500 comments at this very moment), it is obvious that this change is making many of you guys worried. We must have failed to clearly explain why our pricing policy for (some) newer games will change and what this means as a matter of fact for our PC & MAC classic games, which account for over 80% of our catalogue.

To be honest, our announcement was a bit vague simply because our future pricing policy is not 100% set in stone yet and we were just worried to make any promises before it was. You know, GOG.com has been growing quickly (thanks to you!), and the more we grow, the more we are worried to make some of you guys disappointed. This is why we were so (over-)cautious with our announcement.

We should have just been upfront about why we've made these changes and what they mean for us in the future and what we're planning. So let's talk. To be clear: what I'm talking about below is our plan. It's a plan that we believe we can accomplish, but while it's what we want to do with GOG, it may change some before it actually sees the light of day. Please don’t blame me for talking open-heartedly today and telling you about the plans and pricing policy we want to fight for and eventually achieve. The below plans aren't sure. The only guarantee I can give you is that we’ll do our best to fight for gamers while still making sure GOG.com as a whole grows (because well, we still want to be around 50 years from now, you know!). So, enough for the introduction, let’s get things started.

Why does GOG.com need to offer newer games at all?

We've been in business for 5 years now, and we've signed a big percentage of all of the classic content that can be legally untangled. There are still some big companies left we're trying to bring into the GOG.com fold, like LucasArts, Microsoft, Take2 and Bethesda, but what classic titles will we sign in the future once we have those partners on-board? We need to sign newer games or else just fire everyone and keep selling the same limited catalog. Either we bring you “not so old” releases from 2010+ or brand-new AAA titles, because these will become classic games tomorrow. It’s as simple as that.

Also, well, we want to expand beyond just classic games, hence the fact we have been offering you brand-new indie releases for almost 2 years now. Why expanding? Well, obviously, because the more games we sell, the more legitimacy we have on the market and the more likely it is that we can achieve our mission: making all PC & MAC video games 100% DRM-free, whether classic or brand-new titles.

To be straightforward (excuse my French):DRM is shit-- we'll never have any of it. It treats legitimate customers like rubbish and pirates don't have to bother with it. It's bad for gamers, and it's also bad for business and our partners. We want to make it easy and convenient for users to buy and play games; rather than give piracy a try. Happy gamers equals a healthy gaming industry; and this is what we fight for. Anyway, I am sure you well know our opinions about DRM.

To make the world of gaming DRM-free, we need to convince top-tier publishers & developers to give us a try with new games, just like they did with classic games. We need to make more case studies for the gaming industry, just like we successfully did back in 2011 with The Witcher 2. It was our first ever 100% DRM-free AAA day-1 release. GOG.com was the 2nd best-selling digital distribution platform worldwide for this title thanks to you guys, despite having regional prices for it. We need more breakthroughs like this to be able to show all the devs and publishers in our industry that DRM-free digital distribution is actually good for their business and their fans. And when I say breakthroughs, I am talking about really kick-ass games, with a potential metacritic score of 85% or more, AA+ and AAA kind of titles.

And this is exactly why we signed those 3 games we told you about last Friday. We believe those 3 games can be massive hits for hardcore gamers, that they can help us spread the DRM-free model among the industry for newer games and we did our best to convince their rights holders to give GOG.com a try. One of those games, as you see already, is Age of Wonders 3. We're planning more titles even beyond these first 3 soon.

Alright, but why is regional pricing needed for those (only 3 so far!) newer games then?

First of all, you have to be aware of an important fact when it comes to newer games: GOG.com cannot really decide what the prices should be. Top-tier developers and publishers usually have contractual obligations with their retail partners that oblige them to offer the game at the same price digitally and in retail. When they don’t have such contractual obligations, they are still encouraged to do so, or else their games might not get any exposure on the shelves in your favorite shops. This will change over time (as digital sales should overtake retail sales in the near future), but as of today, this is still a problem our industry is facing because retail is a big chunk of revenue and there’s nothing GOG.com can do to change that. We need to charge the recommended retail price for the boxed copies of the games in order for developers (or publishers) to either not get sued or at least get their games visible on shelves. You may recall that our sister company CD Projekt RED got sued for that in the past and we don’t want our partners to suffer from that too.

On top of that, you have to know that there are still many top-tier devs and publishers that are scared about DRM-free gaming. They're half-convinced it will make piracy worse, and flat pricing means that we're also asking them to earn less, too. Earn less, you say? Why is that? Well, when we sell a game in the EU or UK, VAT gets deducted from the price before anyone receives any profit. That means we're asking our partners to try out DRM-free gaming and at the same time also earn 19% - 25% less from us. Other stores, such as Steam, price their games regionally and have pricing that's more equitable to developers and publishers. So flat pricing + DRM-Free is something many devs and publishers simply refuse. Can you blame them? The best argument we can make to convince a publisher or developer to try DRM-Free gaming is that it earns money. Telling them to sacrifice income while they try selling a game with no copy protection is not a way to make that argument.

Getting back to those 3 new upcoming games coming up. The first one is Age of Wonders 3, which you can pre-order right now on GOG.com. The next 2 ones will be Divine Divinity: Original Sin and The Witcher 3. We’re very excited to offer those games DRM-free worldwide and we hope you’ll love them.

Still, we know some countries are really being screwed with regional pricing (Western Europe, UK, Australia) and as mentioned above, we’ll do our very best, for every release of a new game, to convince our partners to offer something special for the gamers living there.

And don’t forget guys: if regional pricing for those few big (as in, “AA+”) new games is a problem for you, you can always wait. In a few months. The game will be discounted on sale, and at 60, 70, or 80% off, the price difference will be minimal indeed. In a few years it will become a classic in its own right, and then we have the possibility to to make it flat-priced anyway (read next!) The choice is always yours. All we are after is to present it to you 100% DRM-free. We are sure you will make the best choice for yourself, and let others enjoy their own freedom to make choices as well.

So, what is going to happen with classic games then?

Classic content accounts for about 80% of our catalog, so yes, this is a super important topic. We've mentioned here above that we can’t control prices for new games, but we do have a lot of influence when it comes to classic games. GOG.com is the store that made this market visible and viable digitally, and we're the ones who established the prices we charge. We believe that we have a good record to argue for fair pricing with our partners.

So let's talk about the pricing for classics that we're shooting for. For $5.99 classics, we would like to make the games 3.49 GBP, 4.49 EUR, 199 RUB, and $6.49 AUD. For $9.99 classics, our targets are 5.99 GBP, 7.49 EUR, 349 RUB, and $10.99 AUD. This is what we’ve got in mind at the moment. We’ll do our best to make that happen, and we think it will. How? Well, we have made our partners quite happy with GOG.com's sales for years - thanks to you guys :). We have created a global, legal, successful digital distribution market of classics for them. This market didn't exist 5 years ago. By (re)making all those games compatible with modern operating systems for MAC and PC, we've made forgotten games profitable again. When it comes to classic games, we can tell them that we know more about this market than anyone. :) Being retrogaming freaks ourselves, we know that 5.99 EUR or GBP is crazy expensive for a classic game (compared to 5.99 USD). We have always argued that classic games only sell well if they have reasonable prices. Unfair regional pricing equals piracy and that’s the last thing anybody wants.

What’s next?

We will do our very best to make all of the above happen. This means three things:

First, we will work to make our industry go DRM-free in the future for both classic and new games (that’s our mission!).

Second, we will fight hard to have an attractive offer for those AA+ new games for our European, British and Australian users, despite regional pricing that we have to stick to.

Third, we will switch to fair local pricing for classic games, as I mentioned above.

TheEnigmaticT earlier mentioned that he would eat his hat if we ever brought DRM to GOG.com. I'm going to go one step further: by the end of this year, I'm making the promise that we will have converted our classic catalog over to fair regional pricing as outlined above. If not, we'll set up a record a video of some horrible public shaming for me, TheEnigmaticT, and w0rma. In fact, you know what? Feel free to make suggestions below for something appropriate (but also safe enough that we won't get the video banned on YouTube) so you feel that we're motivated to get this done quickly. I'll pick one that's scary enough from the comments below and we'll let you know which one we're sticking to.

I hope that this explanation has helped ease your worry a bit and help you keep your faith in GOG.com as a place that's different, awesome, and that always fights for what's best for gamers. If you have any questions, comments or ideas, feel free to address them to us below and TheEnigmaticT and I will answer them to the best of our abilities tomorrow. We hear you loud and clear, so please do continue sharing your feedback with us. At the end of the day GOG.com is your place; without you guys it would just be a website where a few crazy people from Europe talk about old games. :)

I end many of my emails with this, but there's rarely a time to use it more appropriately than here:

“Best DRM-free wishes,

Guillaume Rambourg,
(TheFrenchMonk)
Managing Director -- GOG.com”
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Matruchus: Age of Wonders 3 uses geoIP also. Try unlogging from you account and you will get the same price as if you are logged in. That tells you everything. How do you think regional pricing works. Try going on gog on some other computer without logging in and you will get the same price as if you logg in - that is geoip working its magic.
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CheeseshireCat: Actually, AoW 3 JUST doesn't use different prices for me anymore. See the message above.

And I checked from 2 PCs, one in Russia, one in US, both logged in and logged out.

I only see the USD price.
It seems they must have changed the price for Russia since a lot of people wore treatening to use russian proxys to buy the game or maybe because the rubbel skydived in worth since sunday.
Post edited March 04, 2014 by Matruchus
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CheeseshireCat: Actually, AoW 3 JUST doesn't use different prices for me anymore. See the message above.

And I checked from 2 PCs, one in Russia, one in US, both logged in and logged out.

I only see the USD price.
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Matruchus: It seems they must have changed the price for Russia since a lot of people wore treatening to use russian proxys to buy the game or maybe because the rubbel skydived in worth since sunday.
Given that there's no announcement from them on the subject -- nor any post in this thread -- makes the whole thing even more fishy in my book.
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Pidgeot: If it wasn't required, then it wouldn't have been done for AoW3 - it would have been done when the site update was ready and GOG could actually bill in those currencies.

See also the pre-orders for The Witcher 2 back in the day.
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CheeseshireCat: ... Actually, GOG just proved my point. See screenshot.

Case closed.
That proves nothing, because the RUB price was significantly lower than the normal USD price. The problem with a lack of regional pricing is only relevant for regions where the game would normally cost more; by allowing them to pay less, then... something, something, competetiveness. Again, that's what happened with Witcher 2.

AoW3 still shows up in € for me.

Furthermore, remember that GeoIP is never 100% exact, and databases vary. It is possible (perhaps unlikely, but still possible), that the GeoIP database used by GOG believes your IP is, in fact, in a country that pays in USD.
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Maighstir: Please do find it. They started using GeoIP to enforce regional pricing for The Witcher 2 (because they got in legal trouble with the retail publisher when the user-selected country set the price). Of course, that game has since entered global pricing.
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Matruchus: Age of Wonders 3 uses geoIP also. Try unlogging from you account and you will get the same price as if you are logged in. That tells you everything. How do you think regional pricing works. Try going on gog on some other computer without logging in and you will get the same price as if you logg in - that is geoip working its magic.
That actually makes a lot of sense from both a technical and user experience perspective. If someone visits the site and is not logged in, the only information GOG has to go on as to which price to show them is to use the only information they have available to them, which would be the IP address. The IP address is not definitive of course, but it is the best estimate that any store could have available to determine the visitor's country and then use that information in an attempt to display the correct price to the person. Only if someone has created an account and specified their country and logged into it can GOG have something else to use, and in this case they can use the country the customer has given them in their account setup details and assume it to be more accurate than the GeoIP lookup. If they didn't use GeoIP right now they would have no idea how to estimate what the correct pricing or units are to show to the non-logged-in person, and the price someone sees before purchase would change after logging in during the checkout process. GeoIP would not resolve this problem for 100% of people but would greatly reduce the number of cases in which it happened and that improves the customer experience per se.

My IPv4 address is in Canada for example, but I've also got IPv6 access through a tunnelbroker.net account from Hurricane Electric and my IP netblock will GeoIP resolve as New York City, despite the fact I'm physically in Canada, as is my IPv4 endpoint. GOG.com is not yet offering their services over IPv6 but that day will come in the future at some point I'm sure, and probably before my ISP offers native IPv6 services. This is already true for Desura and some other online retailers for example as they support IPv6 already. So by using my specified country of "Canada" instead of GeoIP, they actually get the correct country (even though in my case I'd be charged USD either way), but I could just as easily be using a SixXS endpoint in Europe instead of tunnelbroker.net for example.

If they were to solely use GeoIP and have IPv6 capability right now, a huge number of people worldwide would be treated as if they were in a completely different country for sure. ;)
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StormHammer: Okay, I'm still trying to get my head around this. if GOG.com is based in Cyprus, then when they set their prices (regardless of currency), they must have included the Cyprus VAT rate of 19% that they have to pay in that country. If that is the case, then what should actually happen is that the US customers (and others outside of Europe) should be paying $9.99 less the 19% VAT, and add <insert their local tax rate here>.

Is that right?
For UK/EU customers GOG apparently takes the hit on VAT rather than passing it on to us; if they didn't then buyers in the UK/EU would instead have to pay (assuming 20% VAT rate):

For $5.99 games, $5.99 + 20% VAT = $7.19 (£4.31, €5.23)
For $9.99 games, $9.99 + 20% VAT = $11.99 (£7.19, €8.72)
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CheeseshireCat: ... Actually, GOG just proved my point. See screenshot.

Case closed.
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Pidgeot: That proves nothing, because the RUB price was significantly lower than the normal USD price. The problem with a lack of regional pricing is only relevant for regions where the game would normally cost more; by allowing them to pay less, then... something, something, competetiveness. Again, that's what happened with Witcher 2.

AoW3 still shows up in € for me.

Furthermore, remember that GeoIP is never 100% exact, and databases vary. It is possible (perhaps unlikely, but still possible), that the GeoIP database used by GOG believes your IP is, in fact, in a country that pays in USD.
You stated that point A was necessary. GOG just ditched point A, at least for Russia. Now you're just trying to wiggle out.
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Pidgeot: That proves nothing, because the RUB price was significantly lower than the normal USD price. The problem with a lack of regional pricing is only relevant for regions where the game would normally cost more; by allowing them to pay less, then... something, something, competetiveness. Again, that's what happened with Witcher 2.
Edit: also, try to explain how you can have only regional prices which are MORE than other regions' prices, but none which are LESS than other regions. If A > B, then B < A. Period.
Post edited March 04, 2014 by CheeseshireCat
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StormHammer: Okay, I'm still trying to get my head around this. if GOG.com is based in Cyprus, then when they set their prices (regardless of currency), they must have included the Cyprus VAT rate of 19% that they have to pay in that country. If that is the case, then what should actually happen is that the US customers (and others outside of Europe) should be paying $9.99 less the 19% VAT, and add <insert their local tax rate here>.

Is that right?
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adamhm: For UK/EU customers GOG apparently takes the hit on VAT rather than passing it on to us; if they didn't then buyers in the UK/EU would instead have to pay (assuming 20% VAT rate):

For $5.99 games, $5.99 + 20% VAT = $7.19 (£4.31, €5.23)
For $9.99 games, $9.99 + 20% VAT = $11.99 (£7.19, €8.72)
So you are saying the prices they set ( $5.99 and $9.99 ) did not include any sales tax whatsoever?

How can that be if their company is based, and they are registered for VAT, in Cyprus? They must have allowed for payment of VAT within Europe when they inititally set these prices.

To say they are 'taking the hit' on VAT when the price I pay must include the 19% VAT rate in Cyprus just does not seem accurate to me. If they knew they could not cover their VAT costs, they would have set the initial prices higher to compensate. Otherwise they simply made a poor business decision.

This is one of the reasons why I think all receipts from now on should include a breakdown of exactly how much VAT we are paying for our purchases. There seems to be some deliberate obfuscation going on.
Post edited March 04, 2014 by StormHammer
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adamhm: For UK/EU customers GOG apparently takes the hit on VAT rather than passing it on to us; if they didn't then buyers in the UK/EU would instead have to pay (assuming 20% VAT rate):

For $5.99 games, $5.99 + 20% VAT = $7.19 (£4.31, €5.23)
For $9.99 games, $9.99 + 20% VAT = $11.99 (£7.19, €8.72)
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StormHammer: So you are saying the prices they set ( $5.99 and $9.99 ) did not include any sales tax whatsoever?

How can that be if their company is based, and they are registered for VAT, in Cyprus? They must have allowed for payment of VAT within Europe when they inititally set these prices.

To say they are 'taking the hit' on VAT when the price I pay must include the 19% VAT rate in Cyprus just does not seem accurate to me. If they knew they could not cover their VAT costs, they would have set the initial prices higher to compensate. Otherwise they simply made a poor business decision.

This is one of the reasons why I think all receipts from now on should include a breakdown of exactly how much VAT we are paying for our purchases. There seems to be some deliberate obfuscation going on.
Well its the same as with every other digital games provider. Not one of them states the VAT height and amount on the bill that you receive as an email after buying a game.
Although this required by local and EU law otherweise it is possibly a case of tax evasion.
Post edited March 04, 2014 by Matruchus
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StormHammer: So you are saying the prices they set ( $5.99 and $9.99 ) did not include any sales tax whatsoever?

How can that be if their company is based, and they are registered for VAT, in Cyprus? They must have allowed for payment of VAT within Europe when they inititally set these prices.

To say they are 'taking the hit' on VAT when the price I pay must include the 19% VAT rate in Cyprus just does not seem accurate to me. If they knew they could not cover their VAT costs, they would have set the initial prices higher to compensate. Otherwise they simply made a poor business decision.

This is one of the reasons why I think all receipts from now on should include a breakdown of exactly how much VAT we are paying for our purchases. There seems to be some deliberate obfuscation going on.
Because they're paying the cost of the VAT instead of passing it on to us (or at least that's what we've been told); i.e. they're essentially selling to UK/EU buyers at a lower price and possibly taking a smaller cut (as I don't think the publishers get paid any less from each sale regardless of region). So for us a $5.99 game = $4.99 + $1 VAT, $9.99 game = $8.33 + $1.66 VAT etc.
Post edited March 04, 2014 by adamhm
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Pidgeot: Exports are exempted from VAT to avoid double taxation when dealing with countries that use sales tax. For the EU, "export" means to somewhere outside the EU VAT area.

Instead, the buyer is responsible for paying VAT/sales tax in their country (which they normally have to self-report, and even then, there is normally some threshold below which no reporting is necessary).

There are probably more details than that in the exact implementation (I'm not a tax lawyer), but that's the basics of how it works.
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StormHammer: Thanks for the clarification.

Okay, I'm still trying to get my head around this. if GOG.com is based in Cyprus, then when they set their prices (regardless of currency), they must have included the Cyprus VAT rate of 19% that they have to pay in that country. If that is the case, then what should actually happen is that the US customers (and others outside of Europe) should be paying $9.99 less the 19% VAT, and add <insert their local tax rate here>.

Is that right?
Close.

Basically, the price for a $9.99 game for a EU customer is about $8.40 + $1.59 VAT = $9.99, while the price for a non-EU customer is $9.99 + $0.00 VAT = $9.99. GOG swallows the VAT fees for EU customers, but the amount paid by the consumer is the same. After the proposed price changes take place (ignoring special regional cases like AoW3), the amount paid is almost the same, and may in fact sometimes be lower due to the lack of currency exchange fees (assuming your bank account is in one of the currencies they mention, of course).

GOG probably do sell enough that they have to charge local VAT inside the EU, in which case the exact rate is up to 27%, but that's the gist of it.

The part about the local tax rate is all up to the individual non-EU customer, and in practice, I except virtually no people actually do anything about it, even if they exceed the importing limit for their country. (Some countries might also have special rules for digital goods.)
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skeletonbow: They probably wont use GeoIP to enforce regional pricing unless it is required by the publisher outright..
It seems for AOW3 it's required by the publisher. And I think it will be the same for others also.
@adamhm and @Pidgeot

Thank you both for your explanations, and I appreciate your time (and patience). :)

What I am taking away from this, though, is that GOG.com, being registered for VAT, should have set their prices with this in mind particularly for their European market.

Rather than entirely 'swallowing the VAT' for their European customers - they are really only having to deal with a difference between the 19% VAT rate in Cyprus, and potentially higher VAT rates in other countries within Europe. So in the case of the UK, they are missing out on 1% in tax on each sale. In other countries the difference will be higher or lower, and may actually even out in the end on the balance sheet.

They are certainly losing out on offsetting any VAT incurred from countries outside of Europe that may be tax exempt due to export laws, but that would always be the case anyway. Also, surely this means they are simply making more money from countries like the US due to that exemption, rather than having to shoulder a VAT burden that they would have to take on board anyway as a European company?

I actually feel less guilty about the prices I have paid here in the past, because there is almost parity between the UK and Cyprus VAT rates (which is where they chose to register for VAT).
Post edited March 04, 2014 by StormHammer
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StormHammer: @adamhm and @Pidgeot

Thank you both for your explanations, and I appreciate your time (and patience). :)

What I am taking away from this, though, is that GOG.com, being registered for VAT, should have set their prices with this in mind particularly for their European market.

Rather than entirely 'swallowing the VAT' for their European customers - they are really only having to deal with a difference between the 19% VAT rate in Cyprus, and potentially higher VAT rates in other countries within Europe. So in the case of the UK, they are missing out on 1% in tax on each sale. In other countries the difference will be higher or lower, and may actually even out in the end on the balance sheet.

They are certainly losing out on offsetting any VAT from countries outside of Europe that may be tax exempt due to export laws, but that would always be the case anyway.

I actually feel less guilty about the prices I have paid here in the past, because there is almost parity between the UK and Cyprus VAT rates (which is where they chose to register for VAT).
What I am curious about is how sales tax is being handled for purchases by US customers.
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CheeseshireCat: What I am curious about is how sales tax is being handled for purchases by US customers.
I amended my post to include this line:

"Also, surely this means they are simply making more money from countries like the US due to that exemption, rather than having to shoulder a VAT burden that they would have to take on board anyway as a European company?"

I assume that GOG.com is simply making more money from US customers, because they do not have to pay VAT on those sales to the Cyprus government.
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Pidgeot: That proves nothing, because the RUB price was significantly lower than the normal USD price. The problem with a lack of regional pricing is only relevant for regions where the game would normally cost more; by allowing them to pay less, then... something, something, competetiveness. Again, that's what happened with Witcher 2.

AoW3 still shows up in € for me.

Furthermore, remember that GeoIP is never 100% exact, and databases vary. It is possible (perhaps unlikely, but still possible), that the GeoIP database used by GOG believes your IP is, in fact, in a country that pays in USD.
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CheeseshireCat: You stated that point A was necessary. GOG just ditched point A, at least for Russia. Now you're just trying to wiggle out.

Edit: also, try to explain how you can have only regional prices which are MORE than other regions' prices, but none which are LESS than other regions. If A > B, then B < A. Period.
The entire point of regional pricing is profit maximization. Prices are adjusted to account for extra fees and market conditions. Those prices have roots dating back a long time, before Steam even existed.

Imagine if a game normally sells for the equivalent of A dollars in some country X.
GOG, on the other hand, would offer this title for B dollars worldwide.

Suppose that B > A. Virtually no one in X would buy the game from GOG in that case, and the publisher is still making the same amount of money that they'd expect without a GOG release - the publisher takes no harm from doing a GOG release.
If A > B, on the other hand, then GOG is undercutting the market in X. This means less profit for the publisher, and they're not interested in that - so they're not going to put it on GOG.

I'm not saying this is fair - because it isn't. It is, however, what the market for large publishers has evolved into, and the solution you see is the best one under the restrictions.

Yes, you can make the exact same arguments for DRM, but at the end of the day, DRM is a technical restriction, not an economic one. Economics restrictions are much harder to deal with.