Since I care more about gameplay mechanics than storytelling in games, that's probably a reason why I think Ultima 4 holds up fine. The combat is too easy but I just have fun playing it, especially since it's one of those old games in which you have to break out the pen and paper and take detailed notes and maps and use the text parser in conversations to get anywhere in it. That sort of thing immerses me in the game more than cinematic cut-scenes or conversations over which I have little control, aside from maybe some simple up/down "morality-meter questions".

Come on you there are just as good games on the SNES.

Super Metroid, Final Fantasy 4, etc.

Don't feel bad OP, I've never got the appeal of the Ultima games and I'm amazed you even got as far as you did without getting frustrated with it. The games are groundbreaking pioneers of RPG yada yada, that's what everyone says, but I seriously feel you had to be there when they were new to really appreciate them. I don't think they have managed against the test of time, at all. I don't have any nostalgia goggles on and therefor the games look mostly dumb to me (fantasy setting...and there's a TIE fighter in there?) I don't know, maybe the Spoony reviews have corrupted my point of view but based on those, I have no desire to ever try anything that has the word Ultima in it.

Let the downvote commence, but this is my genuine opinion.

Remember, that was just Ultima 4 (I don't have 1+2+3) I have not played Ultima's 5,6,7,and 8 yet.

Mabye I would like those games better.

And I will return to Ultima 4 when I feel the need to conquere at least that game makes me want to beat more than Far Cry 1.

I forgot to say this, why is Ultima called "Ultima", from what I seen in this series, what is an "Ultima"?

Well you got much farther than I ever did.

I enjoy old games but man there is only so much I can take.

I was halfway there to be honest, the first half was preparing with everything, getting every party member, getting the mystic weapons and robs, getting all the things needed to get to the Abyss, becoming the Avatar by increasing all my virtues, getting every rune, going to every shrine, and buying all torches, Keys, reagents, etc.

That was my first half, the second half was conquring all the Dungeons and getting the stones and finally the Abyss.

isn't there cheat modes in xu4? I don't think anyone would grudge you for cheating back to avatarhood (even if it's against the principle of the thing lol).

I did not have xu4, I said I was struggling with getting it to work and me and my bro were in deep confusion of what to do that again lets just say it lead me deleting the Ultima second trilogy.

Note to self, never try to mod DOS games unless I have a professional with me in person.

There isn't a Dragon Age 2 subforum, or a Dark Souls one. There is, however, an Ultima subforum, but you made not one but three separate threads about it in general discussion.

I didn't downvote you, nor do I think that three redundant threads is worth being annoyed. Just pointing out why fellow forum members might have been irritated enough to hit the minus.

Welcome to the club man. :(

Well, since the beginning of the month there have been around twenty-five questions asked in the Ultima forum, and only one very niche localization topic didn't get a reply (even the question you posted and then reposted to General Discussions was answered pretty thoroughly on there). I know some of them are totally dead, but I wouldn't say Ultima is one of them, especially when it comes to troubleshooting.

Even if users don't respond to you as quickly on a subforum, the people who do respond are actively looking to talk about and help people out with their favourite games. The response might not be instant, but it's usually a quality answer to any problem.

Here, you're just asking random folks in a general discussion, some of which are likely not that interested in talking and troubleshooting Ultima (otherwise they would probably check the Ultima boards more). I can see why some people would downrep you for being off topic.

I used the search function, didn't quite find what I was looking for so I'm using this thread since I don't think I'm gonna make a new thread for this. But anyway, I decided to give up on Unstoppable Gorg. I really liked the style of the game (50's campy scifi movies) but everything else was just meh. I didn't like the way satellites (your defense turrets) could only be placed on fixed spots, and while they can be rotated around the orbit, everything else in the same "ring" rotates too. Everything was hectic and the game could've benefit from a pause function, during which you can plan your moves ahead. But no, there's just a regular pause screen (which hides almost the whole map). Money doesn't roll in fast enough, there's too many enemies and they take too much damage. Plus the turrets don't even seem to have their priorities in order (come on, there's an enemy right next to Earth and you're blasting an enemy that's waaaaay behind!! Wtf!!) Good looking game, but otherwise shitty as fuck. Stay away.

Also pondering whether or not I should give up on Zafehouse Diaries Roadkill mode. I've beat the Classic mode but Roadkill seems to be relying on luck even more; sometimes the correct auto parts just won't show up no matter what, and if everything's going great, some stupid random encounter fucks my party up. Seriously, I'm in a completely barricaded house with rifles enough to cover a small army, and the game even tells me "we should be able to handle this situation easily" and once I fight, like two or three of my guys still start pushing up daisies. Don't lie to me game! It's hard enough with just five guys, but with three or less the campaign's pretty much over, if there's still lots of ground to cover. I think I'll keep it on my HD for now, but I guess I should wait for a balancing patch before trying again.

Just needed to share my thoughts; I don't usually give up on games unless they're way too flawed and I like writing mini-reviews so there.

To address the original post-- I'd say that to play the original Ultima 4 as a younger gamer, you have to have a historical perspective of what games were like at the time that Ultima 4 was published, and why it was different--- and also whatt games were capable of at the time.

The majority of game plots at the time were the usual rehashed D&D "Kill the big foozle" plots, and throughout the game you could basically pillage and plunder innocent people, steal their stuff, and never suffer any repercussions.

Ultima IV changed that by actually having those actions carry repercussions. A code of ethics was also at the core of the game, and for the first time in computing gaming history, the goal of the game was not to kill the foozzle, but to attain enlightenment. That's a dramatic change from everything that had come before, which had essentially been recycled Tolkien and Dungeons and Dragons (indeed, the first three Ultimas were guilty of that .)

Ultima IV was a huge game changer in the way RPGs developed on the computer--- all of those moral choices and moral conundrums that you see in games today had their start with Ultima IV-- the creators of the Elder Scrolls series list Ultima IV and VII as the two most influential games for them.

The game being primitive? Well... yes, it is primitive by today's standards--- the game came out in 1984, and for its time it was very revolutionary. If you play any roleplaying game from that era, you will find it to be primitive by any standards. You're foisting contemporary gaming expectations onto a historical game, which isn't the way to go about it at all- you need to keep in mind the severe limitations in technology ... and if your game got too big, it would have to ship out on multiple floppy disks, which made shipping the game that more expensive, so designers had to strike a balance between immersive mechanics and story and not bankrupting the company. In fact, one of the things that ended up forcing Origin to sell out to Electronic Arts was the number of floppies that Ultima VII took up-- due to a market crash and a weak Texan economy at the time, they were never able to recoup the loss.

If you can't play the game with a historical context, then I suggest you start with the Ultima VII set of games- they are the most accessible games for modern gamers. I would also suggest you purchase a book called "Dungeons and Desktops: The History of Computer Role-Playing Games" by Matt Barton. It is an incredibly good read, and it should provide you with the actual historical context you need to appreciate games like Ultima IV, and give you an actual understanding of why IV is a milestone in the history of computer gaming, and why it is always considered such an important game.

On the issue of virtue design--- you actually need to look at the lore of the land and the ethics of Britannia as laid down in the documentation. Having those three virtues go up isn't without its logic:
Honor is the upholding of one's word and integrity before others and oneself.
Honesty is holding regard for the truth- not falsifying reality nor deceiving others unjustly.
Justice is treating people and situations the way they deserve to be treated, giving just deserts to the good and the bad alike.
One of the things that make the Britannia setting such a compelling place is that the Virtues aren't some floating abstractions, or some cliche cults that you can separate and exclude: all of the virtues are interrelated in one way or another because they were derived from three principles: Truth, Love and Courage, where each virtue is created by the combination of one, two, or all three principles. That's why the Quest of the Avatar in the game is so important-- all virtues being interrelated means, in the context of the storytelling world, that the Avatar him/herself is an example that ethical virtue is possible, and that the principles practiced in Britannia are not isolated concepts that do not affect each other.

There is a reason, after all, that Origin's motto was "We create worlds"--- and, until EA bought them out, it was true.

That being said, retro gaming as far back as the early 80s isn't everybody's cup of tea, so disliking IV is neither rare nor a huge deal-- I don't know why this was downrated... as a self-avowed Ultima 'fanboy', I don't get my knickers in a twist if someone doesn't want to deal