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Roberttitus: This thread is almost physically painful for me to read... instead of bashing a newcomer who is having an issue (which will undoubtedly force them further away from the site), how about we all stop being such hateful assholes & try to see something from his point of view? As much as people like to talk about how "classy" this forum is, not much of that "class" is being shown in this thread.
It depend on the situation and what your definition of "classy". Classy 100% all the time? Not possible.
Where else can you find people gifting games and code without asking anything in return? I've seen people gifting some expensive AAA titles here, where you can bet people at another place rather ask for something to trade on. Till the point that we have plenty of 'outsider' and 'lurker' here with bot / script to snatch codes.

edit: I didn't low rated your post, it's not my style.
Post edited May 12, 2012 by wormholewizards
We still on this?
Well, someones gotta beat that dead horse...
Post edited May 12, 2012 by Thunderstone
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gameon: When i've seen you post anything, they've always been reasonable (as is this post)
I'm sorry - calling us "hateful assholes" is reasonable ?
We've covered pretty much the entire spectrum of possibilities and - quite contrary to what Roberttitus suggests - understood the guy perfectly. He insulted GOG, everyone who disagreed with him and was generally... less than reasonable. We, on the other hand, after exhausting all ways to explain why he is mistaken, remained civil to the very end. To lighten the mood, kazmar was even generous enough to give away the very game the commotion was all about. It can hardly be argued that our community has failed to uphold its lofty standards. Any example of doing better would likely be a contrived embellishment of what occurred here and I challenge anyone who thinks otherwise to name a community that would respond in a kinder, calmer, more reasonable and welcoming way than ours. Even if we should aim "higher" than where we already are, I'd take being at the top as a good omen.
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Vestin: We, on the other hand, after exhausting all ways to explain why he is mistaken, remained civil to the very end.
Seriously, Vestin? The condescending tone[1]? The thinly-veiled insults[2][3]? Downrating every single one of his posts to oblivion? That's not being a "nice community" at all. Yeah, the thread title was a very bad mistake. But I think a good community should be able to look past that. Everyone here has been positively grilling the guy. No wonder he fought back.

[1] "Someone who knows GOG would have known that GOG only sells DRM-free games. [...] Someone who cares about Steam so much that he can't live without would have either bought the game on Steam itself"
[2] "Or maybe it's just another one of your assumptions? It took me perhaps twenty seconds to find the information about refunds - likely a good deal less time than it took you to write your original post."
[3] "Ass... door... way out... you get the picture."
OP by no mean was totally innocent. He did threw some insult before. But who cares? This case is done and dusted, he get his money. Probably not gonna come back.
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gameon: Its a bit unfortunate your post has been low rated. When i've seen you post anything, they've always been reasonable (as is this post)
While I thank you for your support, believe me when I say that the absolute last thing I care about is if a bunch of people I don't even know dislike what I have to say. As long as I'm saying what I truly believe in, it doesn't matter to me what anybody else thinks.... I mean its not like the approval of this community matters in the greater scheme of things anyways.
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Roberttitus: This thread is almost physically painful for me to read... instead of bashing a newcomer who is having an issue (which will undoubtedly force them further away from the site), how about we all stop being such hateful assholes & try to see something from his point of view?
Numerous people have tried to view the issue from his side, found that it still made no sense, and tried to explain to him why (see orcish's posts for very good examples). He still wouldn't listen and kept making his accusations. He also used some very obvious trolling techniques (not saying that he was a troll, only that he used their techniques). His behavior prompted the responses he got. Actually, in most forums I know, the responses would have been a lot harsher.

Anyway, the fact that you seem concerned about style, but call people who have another opinion (like me) "hateful assholes", does not make a good point. I do respect your opinion, but I strongly disagree. I do not see any need to call you names for that.
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bazilisek: Seriously, Vestin? The condescending tone[1]? The thinly-veiled insults[2][3]? Downrating every single one of his posts to oblivion?
Prove to me that any of those statements were untrue or inaccurate, any suggestion inappropriate, any remark inherently malicious.

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bazilisek: That's not being a "nice community" at all.
I dare you to find a (contrived, out of necessity) better way people could've responded.
Guess what - any appropriate response can come across as "mean" - that's because the original post championed cluelessness, the later responses attempted to marginalize anyone who disagreed with OP and the thread title, I'm sorry, was not "a very bad mistake".
Sticking a fork into a wall socket is a "mistake". Taking a crap on someone's doormat and demanding toilet paper is an arrogant insult. Or are you suggesting that he didn't mean it this way and "lack of integrity" can somehow be taken as...
I'm sorry, my imagination fails me. What exactly was he trying to accomplish by putting "no integrity" in the thread title ? If that is meant to be anything other than an insult - I'd like to hear your thoughts.

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bazilisek: Everyone here has been positively grilling the guy. No wonder he fought back.
It's not "fighting back" if you strike the initial blow... out of nowhere.
Unless you think we should've turned the other cheek, I'm not sure what a more appropriate response to his sustained hostility would've been. We pointed out that he was wrong, analyzed the situation and remained more than adequately civil.

Justice is dishing out what one deserves and if you are going to argue that we weren't just, I'd rather believe that we were too light on him.

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Roberttitus: As long as I'm saying what I truly believe in, it doesn't matter to me what anybody else thinks....
If you don't care what others think, AT ALL, please refrain from posting any further. After all - what's the point ? If you don't care that we think, you can think it all you want - in silence.
Post edited May 12, 2012 by Vestin
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Vestin: We, on the other hand, after exhausting all ways to explain why he is mistaken, remained civil to the very end.
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bazilisek: Seriously, Vestin? The condescending tone[1]? The thinly-veiled insults[2?
Since you quoted me in these parts, let me assure you that (1) was not at all meant to be condescending, but rather ... stunned. I also don't quite see the "thinly-veiled insult" in (2), though I do agree that I wasn't particluarly friendly at this point. However, the amount of friendliness that someone can expect from me after throwing around baseless accusations of "no integrity" (which is an extremely grave insult in my eyes, one of the biggest you can make against an honest businessman), and sticking to them even after multiple explanations why they were baseless (and yes these explanations were there), simply can't expect an unlimited amount of friendliness from me.
(Edit: I actually found out now that I didn't write (2), but I certainly could have, since I thought the same thing and could've written it in a similar way, so I'll let it stand. :) )

Also, I'm sorry, but if you agree to someone who criticized the behavior of the people in this thread by calling them "hateful assholes", and don't even address _that_ insult, it does make your position look a bit one-sided, don't you think?

I respect your opinion if you think that people should have acted differently, but I disagree. You say that we should have been able to look past his behavior. That's a valid position, but there things I don't, can't, and won't look past, sorry. I would have been happy to help him if he had been less disruptive.
Post edited May 12, 2012 by Psyringe
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gameon: 1Thats the kind of thing that puts people off posting. Telling people to stop posting isn't good for GOG.
Think about the logical ramifications of what he said. He does NOT care what others think.
I could've let that fly if he said "As long as what I say is the truth, I don't care what others think" - this still wouldn't be kind but it would suggest that the only people who'd disagree would be the ones believing in falsehood.
But no - he said that as long as he says what he believes in (that is: as long as he's not lying, basically) - he doesn't give a damn what any other person has to say. He just says his thing and that's it. Discussions don't work that way. You CANNOT have a discussion if you neither care what others think nor want to learn the truth. As much as I may like to listen to the sound of my own voice, that cannot be the only reason I engage others in conversation.
Post edited May 12, 2012 by Vestin
Vestin, gameon - I think at this point you might both be putting too much thought into the interpretation of a single sentence. Personally, I took the "I don't care ..." statement as a badly worded form of saying "Opposition will not stop me from posting my opinion", which is a respectable position imho. Of course, that's interpretation as well, and I may be wrong, but it's not wirth much of a discussion imho (at least not for one that warrant's more than a "agree to disagree" after both sides have stated their opinions).
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gameon: He was saying that in response to people disliking what he has to say, not to comments in general. I believe he's a decent enough guy, and was just stating his opinion.
I may be guilty of clinging on to what he said rather than what he meant but the blunt trauma of his post hit me hard. I know it's all well and fine to, say, not mind other people being mean, not taking insults to heart, etc... But it's NOT cool not to care what anyone else THINKS. What about constructive criticism ? What if I'm wrong and they have a point ? What if I'm right ? To explain to them that they're wrong, I first have to care enough to talk to them at all. What if we're both wrong but further discussion could've cleared the situation enough for both sides to understand the issue better ?
The very basis of polite conversation is caring about what others think. Not necessarily agreeing with them, not trusting them blindly... but CARING. Listening to them, explaining and asking for clarification.
Throughout my life I frequently had trouble understanding others, but I've learned that as long as I relentlessly CARE about their opinions and TRY to understand their paradigm, it's likely we'll reach intellectual closure... the polar opposite of "I don't give a damn what others think".
This post from Amerika-p4l was so stunningly offensive to the GOG community that it got together to down-vote it into oblivion. Someone asked him why he bought the game from GOG instead of Steam if he wanted a Steam key, and he replied:

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Amerika-p4l: #1 reason was because you could get American Nightmare for 25% off rather than just 10% off. The other reasons are I had never bought from here and I had always heard it was a good/reliable place to get games. A while back I had never bought from Amazon's digital distribution and it turned out to be a rather nice experience. So I wanted to give GoG a try. I don't mind throwing my money around to things I've heard are good and I don't mind giving new services a try.
I mean, I can see how the community had to down-vote it; totally outrageous.

And now that I've gotten the sarcasm out of mt system ... aside from the title, the OP was perfectly civil. So were the initial replies. In his second post, Amerika-p4l did call some (unspecified) people trolls, but this was after someone proclaimed that the first post was a gigantic web of lies designed to make Steam look good, and how do you respond to that? Time passed, tempers frayed, both sides of the conversation got less civil. It's unfortunate, but hardly the good versus evil narrative that some people (edit: on both sides of the argument) seem to want it to be.
Post edited May 12, 2012 by gm192206
How about we all shut up and have a nice cup of tea, since the issue is already resolved?