If you feel like using it, use it. It's your choice, not bazilišek's. Or you can use only one vote. Can you use just one vote, right? He meant it because of speedlynch but he miscounted required votes.

I am against you telling us your abilities and targets. I see no use to it. I think it will tell us nothing.
If you are indeed town I don't see how it could help us, only cause harm. Better when you remain possible danger to mafia than person with used up abilities.
And if you are mafia I don't believe it could help us to catch you lying as there is most likely no one to counter-claim you.


Well if you all are convinced roosh is not mafia, and you made good point with two mafias because of block and kill tonight, this means someone propably lied about his name. Or maybe not lied but changed reality a bit. As my ability description says I can find out REAL names of players, I looked up names used here (though it was not some deep research) and I saw, unless others, Jack White's real name is John, not Jack. So there is possibility with his investigation I would find out he is named John. Well, this is based on fact, he is Jack White, the musician as was mentioned when Ghost claimed Jack Black.

Though so far I am not ready to take it as proof Rob is mafia, as most of my theories were destroyed quite easily.

And he is still not my main suspect. This honor still remains with Orryyrro. He is the second one (after Typhoon) with first name not being Jack and still have the Godfather and second day case on himself.

I am going to check it out here again few hours later and hope someone will chime in with something because I am not sure how much time I'll have tomorrow and on Thursday there is the site maintance, right?

P.S. @Rob: Which is right then, Rob, Robb or both? :-)

p.s. its Rob - the other b was added because i think when i first tried to use Robeasy it was already taken...;o)

So it seems I have a few more points to address, starting with Jess:
That's a very good point. It's yet another WIFOM, isn't it.
I do know Union Jack is the name of the flag. It's just that I'd be willing to read it as "Union, Jack", if you understand what I mean. It's a minor point, anyway. Orry's claim is the odd one out, no matter how you look at it.

To Roosh: vote as you wish, I miscounted. This day is apparently not going to end in a speedlynch anyway. But starting the next day, it would be better if you were really very careful with your votes.

Now to this rather hilarious post:
There never was any logical or reasonable explanation coming from you, Robb. Basically all you ever did when I posted a comprehensive list of reasons for suspecting you was saying something along the lines of "nice effort, but I'm TOWN!", as anyone can see for themselves. Convincing? I don't think so.

In fact, when you do use logic, it is almost always flawed in ways that I can’t help but read as deliberate. One thing I was saving up, again providing Robb with some more rope to hang himself on, was this (Vitek did mention this, earning some more townie points in my book): even if I told you exactly what my powers were and what was it I tried to do, it wouldn't matter one bit. There is no way anyone can counter claim me -- I didn't do anything! So if I were scum, I'd be perfectly free to invent literally anything I wanted; and if I were town, the only thing it would achieve was giving the mafia the last missing piece of information. This point is something so extremely obvious I again can't help but wonder how can Robb be so oblivious to it.

Again, the case I have against Robb can be summarised to one very simple question: why was I roleblocked on night 2? If anyone can provide any alternative explanation, I’d be grateful. Other than that I’m mafia, please. Or that I was targeted randomly. I’m not buying that.

Some housekeeping at the end: it seems Jess and Robb want the full claim from me, Vitek is against. If either Roosh or Orry are for it, I’ll of course do it. Just say the word and I’ll give you all the details I have.

You know what I find most hilarious Baz? The way you conveniently ignore when I come up with a valid point, and try to pull me down with others. I pointed out Jack was the second name, Yet you only answer Jess, ignoring what I had to say. Then you say its a minor point anyway - didnt stop you trying to beat me over the head with it in post #547 did it? If we're talking logical and reasoning here, I'm not the one contradicting myself within two pages.

And your second point, which you seem fit to ignore the fact that Jess also asked, and use to again attack me...

Theres one massive reason, and Jess pointed it out - but then you're so one-eyed on me at the moment I'm not surprised you conveniently ignored it. If we Mis-Lynch, MAFIA WIN. Theres no point in hiding now - all claims are made anyway. More information at this stage can ONLY help town. You could make it up sure, but you should only be worried about that if youre MAFIA. You don't have full knowledge of what other people know, so full info might tell someone something new. You might slip up and reveal yourself as Mafia yourself, I dont know! Perhaps thats why you don't want to do it???....

Then , after attacking me for asking, you do a full 180 and say of course you'll do it, if others ask.

I just don't get you. Either you're deliberately trying to confuse things as much as you possibly can, which is scummy behaviour, or you have some sort of win condition by getting rid of me. Its not helping town in any way, this constant battering of me. If it was so convincing, others would have jumped on the bandwagon by now.

Although you have proper got me wondering about your role, I'm still sticking with Orry - the name doesnt sit right, and with all other actions over the course of the game, I dont see him as anything other than Mafia.



Then, to compound your utter

Hey, unfinished post above.

Baz, I'd be satisfied with an "I targetted ABC on night 2/3 with an investigative/offensive/defensive role because XYZ" etc, if you don't want to claim active roles, and I don't mind if you want to keep hidden what skills you have remaining as well, if that's what you mean by giving Mafia the remaining pieces of info. That's not the point of asking you to claim actions (for me anyways!). This is more to hopefully clear you (or make you slip), for the rest of town's peace of mind that your attempted actions seem to be solid, even though nothing is provable because no actions fired.

In my mind 2/3 of Orry/Robb/Baz has to be the remaining Mafia team, since I've stated why I don't believe the other two are, but I am -definitely- not seeing a Robb-baz remaining scum team. For that reason, and because I disagree with baz's "Union, Jack" explanation (if you're trying to cover for a scumbuddy's fakeclaim, that's frankly a little weak), I will vote Orryyrro by Process of Elimination, and revote at the end of this post to be sure that Zch doesn't miss it.

And frankly, I'm going to step out of the game here a little bit and do a bit of coaching (as I see it anyway) - though I'm voting who I think has the largest likelyhood of being Mafia, I win at this stage (assuming lylo with 2 Mafia left) if Mafia wins anyway, so I have a little bit less of a vested interest in making sure I have scum - I'm a little surprised no "townie" has bothered making sure I vote early and town working around that. Town shouldn't want me to be judge jury and executioner, and have a deciding vote sitting around when I can win with either side, and the reason is that a 2-person Mafia team know if they can get a mislynch wagon up to L-1, I will vote cause I win if they mislynch, unless they try to NK me at night, though I'll happily vote scum too due to the reason I hinted at earlier.

I was hoping someone would catch on that and pressure my vote as that'd be a strong towntell, but eh, no one did, and too late.

@Robb vs baz - I still find Robb a little scummier because of various things mentioned earlier like the jump on Ghost's wagon, you not having role info to clear her despite her being town, Vitek's point about Robb's name, etc. I don't think the argument that baz uses about being roleblocked on N2 is a super solid one as to why Robb is scum though, though I can see how it can be plausible too, I just don't know why they wouldn't flip it around and kill baz and block Naz on N3 instead if that were the case, since he has the only claimed role with a doctor-ish ability left. That in itself is a bit weird.

Hey, a question that just came to mind, that I might have missed, that might or might not be a glaringly obvious scumslip. Who got roleblocked on N1?

Also, vote Orryyrro like I said earlier.

Because you're scum, Robb. There's little point in talking to you. And I did too much of that already.
Jess' request was duly noted. The fact I didn't mention it doesn't mean I ignored it.
I have been consistently saying since the very moment I claimed that if the majority wants me to say everything, I will. There is no 180 in that. Feel free to check all my posts since the claim.
Of course I do. You're mafia, and we both know it.

I can see my case isn't convincing, but I don't care. Robb is the only one I'm comfortable voting for at this stage. I literally forgot what the charge against Orryrro was, and as I only remember his recent play, I don't see him as particularly scummy. Not to mention that I find his claim oddly plausible; it would be a strange gamble to claim something this outrageous as mafia, and Orry doesn't seem like that type. On the other hand, I could imagine him claiming vanilla despite being mafia roleblocker, yes. He claimed really early and therefore couldn't know the roles in this game are rather complex.
I read that twice and I'm not sure I get what you mean. I'll come to that later when I'm less tired.
As I already said: killing me could easily turn against Robb. And I do think Naz was more dangerous to them than me, because (presumably) one more night block and I'm for all intents and purposes a vanilla townie. Killing Naz removes a strong power role off the list without raising any suspicion against anyone in particular.

And while we're at it, no one commented on the smile on dead Nazarush's face, meaning he presumably found a mafia before his death. The last time he told us whom he suspected, it was Typhoon and Orry. Nice bit of circumstantial evidence there.

Not really - just original stronger worded draft that I didnt fully delete....;o)

Good call on the deciding vote thing - I did indeed miss that, as it would seem everyone else did.

Viteks point about my name - are you sure using the fact that Jack White, the musician from The White Stripes, has the real name John, IRL, as a stick to beat me with?? Tenuous in the extreme - I already stated it says nowhere in my flavour whether I'm a musician or not - i'd never even heard of Jack White until someone pointed it out...! Lets not get too far down paranoid highway!

@Baz - Good to see I've managed to change your mind there then. At least you're just reduced to 'your scum and we both know it' now...;o)

My vote stays with Orry for reasons already stated. Jesskitten is striking me more and more as town with every post. Baz, mainly for the irrational tirades at me is not (and I'm not saying this just because he's gunning for me - its a assessment of the game as I see it)

I do give my reasoning for the suspicion every chance I get. It's fully rational. I just add some emotional spicing to it every now and then, because it's more fun that way.

Not sure what you meant with changing my mind.

It was an (obviously poor) attempt at sarcasm...;o)

To be honest, I've enjoyed the sparring - keeps it interesting. You're completely wrong though, you know..!..;o)

Get lynched and we'll all know I was right :)

Hmm.

@Robb Oh. I just re-read your nameclaim (#381) and indeed you never said you were the musician, others did. Oh well. So much for Vitek's line.

What I mean is how I thought/expected Town and Mafia to react to me, 3rd party survivor, in a 3v2v1 lylo (4 to lynch).
I would have expected their mindsets regarding me to be something like:
Mafia - We know we have 2 left, and she wins with us if we can mislynch a townie. We should try to not mention this, and encourage votes. Especially Roosh votes since they count for 2. As long as he's not on one of us, there are then 3 of us that can quicklynch, because jess can win with us. Assuming of course we can start a wagon on one not our own. In fact, let's buddy up with her as much as humanely possible. (Note: Not that town wouldn't try to buddy either to win votes)

Town - We have 3 left (but control 4 votes), and Mafia are likely not going to vote for themselves, so we need to be extremely careful, figure out who is scum and coordinate all four votes on them. The only "wiggle room" we have is if we have jess vote first, as she's claimed 3rd party, even though she seems to be pro-town, so that we can consider the L-2 and L-1 benchmarks without her vote still as an unknown factor, in case her vote is on a townie. Sure she can hop wagons still, but at least on the one wagon she's on, whether town or scum, you can then correctly gauge the likelyhood of mafia being able to quicklynch or not.

So what I mean is that no one seemed to be thinking of my survivor role here with a "town" mindset, considering the votes left and lynch threshold. You know (or should) that my vote won't necessarily be town-friendly here. If Roosh or Vitek were at L-1, I'd vote them even though I currently think they're town, simply because it fulfils my win condition.

And I bring it up because I had a town read on you (baz) from you mentioning the topic about 2 Mafia and so Roosh should not vote (in #541 and #542), even though you mentioned 3 and not 4 to lynch, cause I thought you were thinking along these lines too. That town read evaporated when you retracted it, because I think it is still very true. I may be wrong about the analysis, feel free to enlighten otherwise.

Perhaps he investigated one and died anyway before he could release results. I hardly think Zchinque is being biased on the side of town and hinting at a previous read like that, as that would be blatantly mod interference. I didn't (and still don't) think there was anything to mention or read into it, even though I'm voting Orry, since there wasn't flavour every day.

Also, could you please confirm that you were NOT roleblocked night 1, despite submitting no actions?

You didn't reveal until now you only had 3 skills as a JOAT, so how would Mafia have known that? They can deduce quite logically now you likely have/had a doc, cop, and vig ability, of which 2 of the 3 are gone now, but for all they knew you had 5 or 6 to pick from. And, you say killing Naz removes a power role without raising any suspicion to anyone, then go ahead and try to smear Orry right after that (by linking death flavour with his last reads being Typhoon and Orry.)

I however concede the Naz point in general - you're right that if they lose their RB, the cop remaining alive would be more dangerous than the JOAT (even though either being able to get another action off would be unlikely, if it does happen for whatever reason, better for it to be the JOAT).

No more extreme then "Union Jack" isn't really a Jack.

That puts both of us at L-2.

Here is something to keep in mind, if Jesskitten is a survivor, then she has more to gain from a mislynch as it would mean she wins, where a lynch of a mafia would make it go an extra day (assuming 2 mafia)

So, in conclusion, vote Robbeasy

You're right. Except I don't know who is scum or town for sure, so odds are 60-40 either way, though I have reasons (which could well be wrong) for placing my vote, I'm also not as stressed out to get it right or lose. :P I don't mind it going an extra day even, because depending on how night actions turn out, the tables may be turned against the Mafia.

I think Orry-baz is the more likely possibility now though, with Rob's name thing, though Orry-Robb isn't out of the question as well. Baz-Robb? It would be so unlikely. Thus my vote on Orry as the crossroads of my thoughts, but honestly, not too worried if you're not.

And to point it out further, since two people are at L-2 now and I'm not on Robb's wagon - if Robb goes to L-1 and I'm on I will vote him regardless of if I think he's town, mafia, or flying pumpkin, so town (mainly Vitek, as Roosh has the ability to kill him straight off, and Robb won't vote himself) had better be sure he's mafia, and not the two on his wagon, before voting. He is essentially on delayed L-1 now.


Also I'm still trying to figure out where the Night 1 roleblock went. Anyone have input?

Well, how does it make a difference if he claimed it himself or not? Ghost indeed was Jack Black so he is the musician and this makes my point against him valid.

I have to say I don't like Rob's defense at all and he moved my list before Orryyrro so with big hesistaion I am going to do this:
vote Robbeasy

We interrupt this game to bring you the latest votecount

Rob - 3 - Baz, Orry, Vitek
Orry - 2 - Rob, Jess

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.