Excellent. Let's make a summary here, shall we?

1) Ghost claims to be Jack Black. Vaguely connected to comedy. Says there isn't enough in her role PM to draw the line between the performer Jack Black and herself. Her PM says Robb is 100% town.

2) Robb claims to be Jack White. Not connected to anything -- in fact, hints to be a completely unknown person. His PM doesn't say whether Ghost is town or not.

Two things: First, like GoJays, I can confirm that my moderator PM is very explicit about making a link between my role and the famous fictional Jack I'm portraying. As explicit as it could possibly be. That was why I was so adamant to learn from both if they were modelled after actual people, and is also one of the reasons why this claim rings very, very false to me. So Ghost is a comedian but Robb doesn't know anything about that?

Second, the "my mason partner is/isn't town" issue. Two interpretations: let's say both are saying the truth. This heavily implies Ghost is scum, unbeknownst to Robb; otherwise, there would be no real reason to give just one of the two masons a confirmation and not the other one. Second interpretation: one or both of them are lying, simply because they are not coordinated enough. There's no way to tell which one of them it is, unfortunately, but there is enough suspicion in the air to lynch either, if you ask me.

For now, let me repeat what Jess asked and insert my own addendum. This is important:

If there is someone else whose role is a non-person (like our dear flag named Orryrro), speak up now. If there is someone else whose role is an unspecified person (like our dear non-guitarist Robbeasy), speak up now. We need no details, just confirm. Alternatively, it would be nice if everyone could simply say if they are a person or a thing and whether the person/thing is famous or not. Like me and GoJays did.

There must be some lies floating around right now. We must cross-check everything as much as we can.

I have to agree with baz that cross-checking the details of the claims is a good idea. Scrutinizing claims is what cemented both of the sucessful scum lynches in GOG mafia 1.

That being said, I can tell you that my role pm is not very explicit about connecting me to its real world counterpart. There is, as far as I know, only one possible interpretation of my rolename but the flavor doesn't specifically describe me as being that person. Therefore I dont find it overly suspicious that Ghost and Robb's role pms weren't explicit.

Also, my role is a person and fictitious

Well, I'm a real person as well, with the flavor making it very clear as to who I am - if that helps at all.

Because I wanted to save my Mason partner's skin, no more and no less. We can't afford a mislynch. I didn't want to do an outright roleclaim originally because it would give Mafia targets. I changed my mind when it became clear a mislynch would happen if I did not.

As for the Mafia ploy theory, its pretty silly because we'd be knocking ourselves down to one mafia member in two days.

To Baz: I want to strongly discourage lynching us -- but if you feel it's necessary, do so. We'll be down to 8 players and still have little idea who the Mafia is, but that's your call. If you can drum up the support, give it a shot. I did specifically go for this roleclaim to save Robb. If that isn't going to work then I gave Mafia the upper hand for no reason.

I'm obviously not going to claim Mafia, so refuting that part of your post would be words wasted. Your suspicions would go nowhere and even if they did, anything I'd say would be essentially a tautology by its very nature. I'll leave it to you guys to decide whether or not I'm Mafia, because if I am then I am certainly not going to tell you, and if I'm not you won't be able to tell just from me saying I'm not. That means arguing in my defense is worthless and it's up to you guys to decide.

That wasn't a stumble - if my flavour had mentioned any connection with music, or given me any indication as to any famous person I was supposed to be, I would have said so. All it tells me is my name, the fact that I'm a Town Mason, my drinking buddy and fellow Mason is Jack Black (Ghost), and we decided at last years Jackday celebrations to collabarate on a project, called 'Jack Gray'. Now if I'm missing a massive reference to the White Stripes or something here please tell me now!

@Baz - there is no hint to be a completely unknown person - its just that my PM gives me no more information than I've outlined above.

I've not quoted my PM outright as thats against rules, but thats it paraphrased best i can.

All I can do is echo Ghost - we are Masons - Im Town Mason.

And I'm 95% sure Ghost is a Town Mason as well, going by the chats we've been having, although It does not specifically tell me in my PM.

I'm not sure we can read too much into the namings - MOD had to come up with a theme, got 12 JACKS, then had to get flavor text for each. Not impossible to imagine it would be quite hard to make it obvious who each JACK is in PM's?

the begin with your end in mind is a section for how to play mafia, from a section under the as a townie category "Keep it Real: "his should seem obvious, but don't lie unless you know what you're doing. Nothing looks worse than getting caught in a lie, plus one of the major benefits of dying as Town is that everyone expects you weren't lying while you were alive."

However, you do have a good point about there probably being at least one mafia on Damnation, but I'm not convinced that you were not one of them.

And nothing at all about the nature of the project? You don't even know if it's meant to be an artistic project, or an economic, educational, what have you? Somehow, I'm still not convinced.

Coming back to #378 for a second, can either of you answer this (underline is mine):

When was that? Also, are you day talking or night talking masons?

Yes - thats why it threw me a bit, you claiming Vanilla - I was so sure you were Mafia , I was 100% expecting a power role claim. You did the opposite, so I questioned it. That claim smells of town, i was just questioning it because i was so sure you were Mafia.

@Baz - no, nothing about the nature of the project, at all. And I was going to claim originally on 31-3, when I first came out with the Damnation voite theory - I wanted to back it up with me and Ghost being town. Ghost dissuaded me because she thought a Mason claim would paint us as early targets for a hit.

In my PM the project is described as "tasteful" and "comedic".

Robb has the date right. We are both day and night to my knowledge, Zchinque gave no restrictions on our talking.

Heh, I said nothing about posting immediately. :-) I had no time to read all posts and had to go.

The recent development made Robbeasy go down my scum list but also made Ghost go up. Why did YOU came out with mason thing? Why not to leave it up to him? He wasn't in immediate danger of lynch, though I admit a lot of eyes started to focus on him. Did you belive he won't claim and gets himself lynched even on L-1 (which still was far away). Like if you were trying to confirm yourself before your partner gets lynched.
Though Ghost provided more flavour than Rob, she claims her rolePM confirms Rob as town, but according to Rob, there is no such assurance of Ghost in his rolePM. It could imply she in fact is not town. I am quite unsure right now.
But it is not solid case by any chance yet and I think we have stronger case elsewhere. Therefore I'll be sticking to my vote on Orryyrro right now. HIs claim seems more and more unlikely.

Mason unrelated question to Ghost, why do you think if Orryyrro flips scum jess becomes almost certainly scum?

I can confirm either is NOT a case here.

I know and I admit it. I am trying to improve, that's why I try to post more and why I try to push others to do the same. Some of my posts indeed are not as long as posts of some other players but not all posts can be long and thoroughly insightful. Even short posts matters here. I don't ask all to write blocks of text too, at least to chim in would be enough.

I believed, possibly irrationally, that my assertion to him at an earlier date that he shouldn't claim Mason might cause him to disregard a proper roleclaim. I acted quickly, at L-3, to avoid the game turning unpleasant for us two. I'm not about to say it was a smart move, but it was the move I made and its too late for it to be anything else now.

First off: not almost certainly, I didn't say that. But she doesn't look very good. Why? Because Jess hinted at the end of Day 1 that Orry should have a cop check him out. Then in Day 2 she becomes extremely zealous and irrational, saying Orry doesn't seem overly suspicious but then claiming that I seem suspicious for not voting for him. (This last point has never been addressed by Jess. It can be summed up as: if you think he is a townie, why are you going and calling me scummy for not voting him?)

All of these seem to be an attempt to -make- Orryyrro look like a townie, like shove "THIS MAN IS A TOWNIE" down the Town's throat, most probably because he is likely the Mafia Godfather.

If he flips scum, the request for a cop will mean that it has to be the Godfather (that's his entire schtick) or an extremely crafty and slightly suicidal Mafia member of another sort (due to the extreme balls required for this route, I find it unlikely).

Let me tell you what I don't like about this situation. This is taken from the first post, adding all of the claims we have heard so far (an asterisk means it's unconfirmed).

3. nmillar - Town Jailer
4. Robbeasy - *Town Mason
6. Damnation - Town Vanilla
7. Rooshandark - *Town Doublevoter
11. GhostQlyph - *Town Mason
12. Orryyrro - *Town Vanilla

Which leaves us with the following:

1. Typhoon
2. jesskitten
5. Bazilisek
8. GoJays
9. Nazarush
10. Vitek

Let's assume all the claims have been true. Now for argument's sake, I'm keeping myself in the second list, because obviously the only one who knows my alignment is me. Nevertheless, if we presume there are three mafia (which I still do simply because there is nothing suggesting otherwise), this means one half of the second list is scum.

Now if you'll allow me a bit of conceit, the list includes two, let's call them high profile players (Jess, myself) and the entire "quiet" group I've listed some posts back (#358). Three possibilities:

1) Jess and me and one silent player (SP) are scum. I know this is untrue; I believe the rest of you will at least agree it's unlikely.
2) Either Jess or me plus two SPs are scum. Not impossible, but it would honestly surprise me, partially for the same reasons as possibility number 3.
3) The mafia's strategy in this entire game is laying low. This is something I refuse to accept, because it's both bad play and very boring. Sportsmanship dictates this should not be true.

I'm just running the odds here, and if I look at the three options, I come to the conclusion it is simply more likely that one or more of the claims we've heard are false.

I agree with Vitek that one of the strangest things about this mason development is that Ghost claimed at a time when the pressure on Robb was not exactly negligible, but not particularly serious either. This is odd. And because I already let Ghost off the hook once simply because her play would be incredibly ballsy for a mafia, I'm not willing to do the same thing again. There is a very real possibility that the mason pair is actually the mafia attempting a high risk / high reward ploy. And I want to disarm this particular time bomb before it blows in our collective face.

I strongly support lynching either Robb and Ghost now, to get at the bottom of this. I can only vote for one, but I say right now that whichever of these two wagons gets more support, it can count on my vote, too. For now, I have to pick.

Unvote
Vote GhostQlyph

A couple of points...

Only one power is actually confirmed so far - doublevote (Roosh). Almost certainly Town.

You have two more players who have claimed Power role. Me and Ghost. Both declared Town.

Yet you want to push a lynch on one of the only declared power roles - can I ask in what way that is beneficial to the town? Surely as an upstanding member of the Town you would want to be saving power roles, or at least considering the possibilities.

As for the 'high profile players' not being scum, solely based on the fact they are high profile - certainly not a given, Mafia can be high profile just as easily as lying low. I would guess that theres a mix - one or two lying low, one or two in yer face. So your option 2 for me is likely - very likely for me, because I suspect Jesskitten strongly.

And the fact you've just come out in strong defence of her shoots you right up the list again as well.

If you want to clear this up now - lynch Orry. Hes high up on most peoples suspects list - already declared vanilla , so no risk of hitting a town power role, surely better than taking a punt on me or Ghost? Why oh why would you advocate hitting a power role when hitting Orry would go a long way to clearing it up?

Two things:

Stop and think for a while: a mason is actually an almost useless power role for the town. Completely useless when they have both claimed. So you can talk to each other. Big deal. How does that help us if we're not sure we can trust you? And if you're not even sure you can trust each other?

Read it again, please. I do suspect Jess, I always have. I just don't think it's her and two of the silents. A different thing. And yes, two in your face and one laying low is the ratio I expect we are looking at.

To the final paragraph: lynching Orry tells us something definite about Orry. Lynching either of you two tells us something definite about one and something not-as-definite-but-almost-there about the other. It's simply a better trade-off.

It just wouldn't make sense for a mafia to make a role claim as Ghost did. The risk is simply too high - it's not that she was putting herself on the line, but Robb's as well. If either one of them turns out to be scum then the other is almost positively scum as well. I'm certain she knew the claim would put them both under heavy scrutiny, so why would the mafia want to do that to themselves?

Also, if we lynch Ghost or Robb today and the revealed role is in fact town mason, then odds are the other will be offed by the mafia, taking us back to square one and making it a 5v3 situation - pretty damn bad if you ask me.

That said, I'm not an expert at this game, so if you think lynching them at this point to get at the truth is a viable strategy then it might be worth a try, but just be careful.