bah....

etc.

Good luck remaining survivors!

So, just three of us left and someone is lying about a power role

So, to start, lets hear your night action results

I was sure I would be the one to go, but targeting myself would teach us little - as I would be unable to share my knowledge with you. Thus, I targeted pazzer, leaving me with no answer, as he wasn't the one to go.

I've been going through the thread, though, with focus on us survivors, and I've found some interesting things.

First, I'll start with pazzer.
While not speaking much, he also never presented a theory of his own or really points the finger at someone. While in it self not particularly suspecious at early stages, it becomes slightly weirder as time goes on - he mostly jumped onto bandwagons with little reasoning. Hell, in post 518, he outright admits to joining the bandwagon on Azarr for the sole reason it being the only bandwagon - very suspicious if you ask me. Coinciding with this, he was also very protective of Ubivis when Ubivis false claimed doctor and others were uttering minor words of doubt.
Further, when he hits L-1, he says he won't bother roleclaiming, and only does so when encouraged - could be a hint at him waiting for cearance to falseclaim as cop, as he claimed jesskitten as town, maybe waiting for the cop to out himself? He also continuously questions his role's sanity, seemingly hopign that people will second guess his town claims.
He has been given "town" status since the night with nokill as people were sure he had been saved by the doctor (jesskitten), while it seems more likely that nmillar was targeted that night (With him being bulletproof and all).
He chose to investigate Nazarush, because he thought Typhoon town - and Typhoon clearly wasn't town, but a mafia would not know as such.
With the lynching of Typhoon, he was a wordless hammer (his post containing his vote and nothing more), which might indicate that he agreed with the consensus - and allows for a quicklynching of a person he knew was not mafia, if he is the last mafia.

And lastly, the fact that he has survived this long is quite astonishing - he role claimed very, very early on.



Nazarush, reading up on you would also require reading up on Al1, as you're both the same role. It might seem unfair, but it has to be done in order to get the most possible information.
That being said, Al1 was fencesitting extremely much and never cast a vote during the first day. The only votes cast by your role was by you, on day 2 - all three of your votes, and one was on ubivis until he claimed doctor.
Then there was the fact that Al1 was beign viciously hunted by Zchinque, and coincidentally, Zchinque turns up dead after the night passes. Maybe done to frame Al1, but Zchinque seemed adamant that Al1 was mafia.
Your first vote on ubivis is something I'd like to get into a bit more detail about, really. You state your vote on him is because his softclaim is scummy, and then that he survives, but on day 3, when he is under heavy scrutiny and facing a lynch because of him surviving so long, you get defensive of him, to the extent of you saying you think lynching him is not worth the risk. It seems to me here that you're trying to convince people to not lynch ubivis, trying to save your fellow mafioso. Added with your first vote being for ubivis seems to be a way to get of the fence and into the fray, joining the bandwagon, and meanwhile clearing you off the classic "hasn't vote for other mafia" fallacy.
Your next vote was onto the second forming bandwagon - pazzer, and your reason was his random votes from day 1 not being backed up. When pazzer then claims cop, you leave the wagon saying only "oh ffs" and then says how easily the mafia can pick off targets. the latter might not seen suspicious, but it could also be seen as slightly confirming what the idea behind the mafia's strategy is - get open as many roles as possible.
you then next jump onto the bandwagon on Typhoon45, agreeing with Robbeasy's reason and contributing nothing else of your own. Considering that Robbeasy is now confirmed mafia, that would imply you agree with your fellow mafioso. And this was before I pointed out Typhoon's killing of jesskitten.
you were, at one point, also interested in a massclaim, when there was still 8 people alive, because you were interested in, or at least stated you were, locking people into their claimed roles. At the point, it could have brought out Ubivis as a liar, but it ould also have revealed my power, and jesskitten as doctor. Which clearly shows the massclaim idea would be of more benefit to the mafia.
And then, lastly, you haven't been part of a lynchwagon at all, especially not any of the last two, with the two targets being outed as anti-town.


So in all, I'm mostly suspicious of you, Nazarush, but there is also the chance of pazzer lying about being a cop, of course.

Just scrolled through some of the earlier posts again, and came across that Nazarush said he was having some issues in real life, leading to quite some absence. This could actually explain a lot of the things I just posted about him, meaning his appearing a lot less suspicious to me now.

Further, I considered pazzer's situation some more, and he has only investigated people who turned out to be town, but never those who were directly under a lot of suspicion (Ubivis, for instance), nor himself. He has always only investigated people who were essentially out of the lime light completely. With him wanting us to second guess his findings (Him pointing out he might be naive) leads me to think more that he wanted to mislead us. As he has already investigated you, Nazarush, and I've not been investigated, it seems most likely he's going to claim me as mafia to earn your trust and get you to mislynch. I've suddenly become very, very suspicious of pazzer, and a lot less of Nazarush. (Quite quick, I know, but it didn't take too long to pick up on your post about your real life issues, and the rest was merely thinking about pazzer's situation)

Hmm, you make some good points. Reading back for myself, I have found some other suspicious activities on Pazzer's part. He did defend Ubivis, and at one point voted for him then quickly retracted, saying he wanted Ubivis to give his claim (which we now know is fake.) Robbeasy (the other scum,) also defended Pazzer immediately after his claim.

However, the most suspicious act on Pazzer's part I see by far is him saying "investigated x who isnt mafia," on multiple occasions. Cop results typically come back as "town/mafia," "innocent/guilty," or "pro-town/anti-town." It should not come back as "not mafia." Someone (believe it was JessKitten,) actually asked him if he recieved "not mafia" or "town" and he never answered.

Looks like Jess was right. Investigated Damnation who came back mafia.

Of course it could turn out that i'm a naive cop and Naz is a framer. But I think that's unlikely. As why would the godfather make the kill with a watcher about.

@Damnation - lol about me investigating myself

@Naz - Looking back it was asked by nmillar the day Ubivis got lynched. Apart from posting the results of my investigation I wasn't around at all that day. So must of missed that question when reviewing the days events.

The results I get are not mafia/mafia which makes sense as we had a serial killer.

Vote Damnation

Pazzer showed surprise in the fact that Zchinque hadn't been lynched yet, claiming the mafia would wish the day - how could he know that?
He also "lol'ed" as the thought of him haaving tactics, seemingly an attempt to throw suspicion away from himself. Further, he doesn't consider himself being a supporter of others' ideas, despite only relying on others' ideas.
Followed by this, he voted for me, with the only reason being "looking elsewhere" so he wouldn't be thought off as jumping on a bandwagon (post 264), yet later voting for Azarr ONLY because Azarr was the only bandwagon (518) - very suspicious, and highly contradictory.
As Nazarush pointed out, pazzer seemed to be protective of both ubivis and robbeasy. Specifically the unvoting of Ubivis so he could roleclaim - roleclaiming is still possible at L-1, and we knowing Ubivis as mafia now would clearly mean the mafia would not vote for him unless they saw no other way around?
Asked Ubivis to protect Typhoon instead of himself - indicating he knew he wouldn't be nightkilled.
In 653, he stated Nazarush wasn't mafia, now he ponders the theory of Nazarush being a framer.
Was the one to push for the mass claim in the end - while it didn't reveal much to the mafia, it could have been a last minute hope of revealing potential hidden powerroles.
Is the first one to express surprise at both mine and his own survival after I outed myself as insomniac, despite nmillar's attempt to draw the mafia fire (which worked) - thus the nightkill was evidently done on nmillar as the mafia thought they had found the actual cop.

As per your question why the godfather would make the kill himself knowing my power? I don't know, why don't we ask Robbeasy once this is all over? Perhaps you even know?
If I were mafia, why would I want Robbeasy dead, especially one a LYLO day? That doesn't make sense. Plus, you claimed me mafia, just as I suspected. Why you left me alive today just fits in perfectly with an attempt to create a proper scapegoat. You said yesterday I was the only one left for you to investigate - so killing one of the people you had investigated made most sense, otherwise you'd be left in too difficult a predicament.
And since when has not being around been a good reason for not answering questions? It's a forum, you can easily read the previous posts?
Plus, getting mafia/nonmafia because we have a serial killer means extra protection for the serial killer. The most usual for when a serial killer is present is to give "town/nontown" according to the wiki.

It just doesn't add up in the long run, and you have far too many suspicious moves. Plus being the first to vote today can easily come across as eager to get the game finished in your (mafia) favour.
I'm quite convinced you're the last culprit, so

vote pazzer

So what, now Im expected to make the fateful, game-ending vote?

well shit...

Pazzer, you are correct about the mafia/not mafia thing. I need to read my wiki articles more closely. And the fact that you reported your results that way before knowing that there was a serial killer lends you some credibility, but im not convinced either way yet.

This will take serious deliberation and probably a full reread before I can decide who I think is the more likely scum

@ Damnation - Can't find Naz's post about real life issues which lead to you doing a 180 about him. Also can you link to the bit on the wiki where it says the most usual for when a serial killer is present is to give "town/nontown".

I was surprised that Zchinque hadn't been lynched yet. Which is why I came up with the theory that at least one mafia had already voted for him. I didn't say anything about the mafia wish the day.

I still do find it funny that you think I have tactics. I never said anything about not being a support of others ideas. In fact I saw my job as cop to identify strong town players so we had the best chance of winning.

My first vote for you was completely random as at the time I was annoyed by Azarr's somewhat random vote. So decided to show him what a random vote was. Also was still geting to grips with the game and at the time though hopping on bandwagon was anti town. Though you set me straight on that.

As for my vote on Azarr at the time I didn't want to lynch any of the other claimed power roles. Which was a mistake. But as lyching someone is better than a no lynch I voted for Azarr.

I don't see how i've been protective of Robbeasy, can you show some examples?

As for unvoting Ubivis when he was L-1 that's just good play. As Zchinque said (post 278) when Typhoon45 was at L-1 and hadn't claimed. As he has still no claimed, I believe it would be better if you remove your vote, and we extract a claim instead. (The reason for typically claiming at L-2 is to prevent the mafia from quicklynching a claimed cop, or similar).

When I asked Ubivis to protect Typhoon I was taking the gamble we were all town. As I though the likely outcome of that night was me roleblocked and Typhoon killed. Meaning the town would learn nothing. So I tried to create some confusion and get the mafia to kill Ubivis. meaning the town would get some info the next day.

But as it turns out neither of them were town. Though it did leave Ubivis to making a slip up. By saying my post had make it difficult.

As for post 653 I had to conside all the options before making my choice.

About the cop thing, it's not of much consequence, it was on the cop page. I was merely pointing it out and not as any sort of attack against you.
About Nazarush:
Explain this then:
Yeah, this pretty much contradicts what you just said, meaning you practically just lied.

So,
You say you're not quick to support others' theories, yet you only rely on them for voting. you're right you're not saying you don't support them, but you say you're not quick to support them. You never truly uttered support of another's theories, but you have only taken to them when explaining votes.

No, but you used the reasoning of him being the only bandwagon back then, and there were no other bandwagons on the others at the time. The fact that you used the reason of him being the only bangwagon and not the reason of risking too much on a gamble cries suspicion to me.

I merely consider your unvoting of Robbeasy when you claimed cop as being slightly protecting of him, as there wasn't any incentive to unvote him, just because he advised you to roleclaim, and then you following his advice. I might just be reading too much into this, but either way, there it is.

And can be seen as a hope your partner in crime will claim an unclaimed role. Obviously, it would prevent quicklynching, yes, but the action is still very suspicious. Coinciding with you never voting for him again, well...

So you were making a gamble on a potentially unlikely event? I fail to see how this could make anything work, for if the doctor had protected a potential tracker, would the mafia not just have gone for the confirmed doctor, or a completely different person? the interesting this is that the following day was when there was no nightkill.
I must also say, you wanting to get Ubivis killed is a very strange argument, considering you were unwilling to lynch any of the claimed power roles. It just sounds extremely against what you claim your reason for jumping on Azarr's bandwagon was. You wanted Ubivis dead despite you believing him the doctor? I don't buy it.

I'm slightly lost now, which of my statements is this refering to? :p

But you have addressed nothing of what I just said? Truly, I'd like to know what you think I'd gain from killing Robbeasy. You killing him makes sense, as he was just outed as having killed nmillar.



I think you stating you wanted a claimed doctor dead is VERY implicating, and despite us knowing now he was lying and actually scum, that contradicted a lot of what you say now, and to a degree, said then.

Looked on the cop page and still can't see where it says The most usual for when a serial killer is present is to give "town/nontown".

Assumed you were talking about post 166. But in fact you were talking about post 219. Just got what you mean about wish the day, boy am I slow. That post was expanding on my theory that at least one mafia had voted for Zchinque. I admit I was wrong and did say the mafia would want the day over with asap.

Though it was weeks ago I posted that and i'm too lazy to go back looking though all the posts. Thanks for quotes it this time, wish I knew how to do that.

Surpose you're right I have relied on others theories especially Jess to help make up my mind about things. Though I didn't post any support as tended to work out out the possiablitys in my head. As shown by my post just voting for Typhon without an explanation.

Again I should have explained my reasoning better with reguards to my vote on Azarr.

Will make sure I post more reasoning in the next game :)

I didn't get a chance to vote for Ubivis on day 3 as he was lynched too quickly. Though Naz didn't vote for him either.

If we were all telling the truth then the best outcome would have been doctor dead and Typhoon or myself roleblocked. As the town would still get some info the next day.

I was worried that that mafia would assume the doc would protect the cop (me). Which would leave them free to kill Typhoon and roleblock me. Meaning the town would learn nothing.

As for why you killed Robbeasy you wanted to cement your claim as a watcher. After you got lucky when Typhoon turned out not to be a tracker.

Assume for a moment were both town can you think of a reason I would get a mafia result on you. I couldn't which is why I voted for you.

Coming back to this after a couple days absence, I have realized something. Robbeasy flipped godfather, which protects him from cop investigations. If pazzer is not a cop, what role does that purpose serve?

According to the wikia, the Godfather role does not necessarily mean immune to cop checks, but rather means he's the one in charge and the one to sent the Mod the nightkill pm. The wiki further states that the godfather might be immune to nightkills in games with multiple possible nightkills (like with a vigilante or serial killer).


Like I said, it wasn't really of much consequence, but I reread it and I must have misinterpreted what it said last time I read it.

All you have said, has been said by you, so when I address something and don't directly link, it could potentially link to everything you have said. But I should probably have pointed to your post in question, would seem appropriate.

I must say that's a rather poor excuse in my mind - not wishing to go back and read what has been said, it can be potentially dangerous. About the multi quoting, it's not that hard, I can explain it if you wish (Though probably in a pm or after the game is done)

Actually, you voting for Typhoon without any other words is suspicious, for as mafia you would have known he wasn't mafia, which to you would be an easy mislynch. Your hammer came suddenly, without question and without warning or word.

The question is more, did you have any other reason than what was stated? We can't really know, and you can say anything at this point in order to try to lead us (or at least me) away from suspecting you.

You're right, Naz didn't vote for him, which at the time and when I was chronologically reading the thread seemed quite suspicious, but with him stating he was takign a shitstorm in real life makes me more lenient to thinking he had real life issues even at that point.

I fail to see how the doctor getting killed is the best outcome. The most likely outcome, perhaps, but far from the best? An investigative role would be better to trade, or a completely random person. Hell, I think we did get the best possible outcome from that day, though it meant nmillar losing his bulletproof-ness.

In the given situation, we would have learn Typhoon either lying or telling the truth. Further, we would have learn as much from the doctors death as from the tracker's and the cop's deaths. I fail to see how we woud learn more from a dead doctor than a dead tracker or cop. I you mean long term, then sure, we could have had the chance to learn something, but nothing would be guaranteed. It would be more likely to never have tought us anything at all. Dead doctor first, then next day a dead cop, with the tracker roleblocked, and the previous night a misfiring cop and a roleblocked tracker, or the other way around. The doctor's death just seems so weird to wish to occur.

Truly? That's a very foolish and unlikely theory to be true. The day was LYLO - Lynch or Lose, meaning we had to lynch a mafia or lose. If I were mafia, I could have claimed enterprise2004 did the deed and people would still have followed me, and you already hinting at us to not fully trust your cop claims would be considered naive (as you have hinted at you might be). This would have ended the day quickly in absolute mafia victory. If I were mafia, why would I surrender complete victory just to cement my roleclaim? I truly find this logic faulty.

I can think of three reasons. A) Damuna's a bastard and made you a random cop. B) Someone framed me. C) I'm a miller (could be slightly indicated by my role's flavour text, but I doubt it, as I doubt you're telling the truth very much)
This questions seems like you're wanting to shift attention over to Nazarush, who I find strongly proven town at this moment.

Damn it, this is a hard decision.

I think, however, Damnation has made the best point. He had no need to bus Robbeasy if he were mafia as he could have just won yesterday.

Will still let Pazzer give a counter-argument though