Simply play your own game? No-one is forcing you to do this. I went to a boarding school on top of a mountain for 5 years without internet. During this time I religiously played Diablo II and "legitimately" made many high level characters, including a lvl 92 Amazon and lvl 90 Sorceress. But hey, the game gets boring and new content is less than frequent, thus playing on battle.net was something that revitalised the game for me. Once you know every single mechanic in the game inside out and backwards, you start to like to put this knowledge to use. And it's fun. If you don't like it, don't do it.

Breach is the most recent game I can think of.

I first heard about it when some kid tried stealing the source code from PAX or some other show. I remember a lot of previews speaking highly of it, and decided I'd give it a shot. What I found was a very mediocre shooter with awkward controls and a destruction mechanic that never fully worked correctly. I tried it for a few days then uninstalled it, really unimpressed with it.

I'll probably have to run and hide with this one... ;)


Half life 2. I followed all the videos, physics demos, screen shots, and just about any media that would cover the game. Being a firm fan of the first game, I was pumped. After the STEAM fiasco, I decided to pass. Eventually I found the game for $9.99 at Target and used a noSTEAM program to play the game I bought. Outside of 1 level (the one they demoed the fire out of and so I had already seen most of it)... I didn't see any innovation. Half life one had ambiance, story, minor puzzles. Half life 2 was just run and gun. I think I finished it in 2 days. Had 2 free passes to episode 1 and gave them away. Wasn't even inspired to play more for free. Then, of course, STEAM disappointed me more than anything in and out of gaming (with few exceptions) but to be fair, that is a separate disappointment from what Half Life 2 was. It failed all on its own for me.

Wow... And I mean that. I can imagine that if you know a game that extremely well that it seems 'normal' to do this. I consider myself a real gamer. Not in the sense that I play a lot of games for hours on an end each day or I'm a hardcore gamer (like you, and I mean that in a positive way) but in a sense that I belong on this site/forum because I know 'a lot' about games throught the years. (Ask me about a game name, console, year, a genre whatever and I know a lot about it, at least in my honest opinion ) Well anyway... back to the subject; So I can amagine too that Zolgar says that this is the reason why he hated Battle.net because I would too if there are people who like you (no offense by the way) who'd play a game like this. It really takes the fun out of it for 'normal' players.

On the other hand, I do admire the fact that you have such a knowledge level of Diablo 2, honestly!

Lvl 80 in 3-4 hours.... wow... damn....

I think for me it would have been Lords of Chaos; I absolutely loved the original Julian Gollop game 'Chaos'. I can still play this today; but for some reason Lords of Chaos just wasn't what I hoped. I loved the similar Laser Squad game but LOC just bored me to tears at the time.

Though I reckon I could quite easily enjoy this game now compared to a lot of newer games.

This was more my point, because people like that literally ruin multiplayer for other players. It's just like in City of Heroes in the heyday of powerleveling, you could almost never find a team for legitimate gameplay. Also players of this sort screw up a games economy even worse, making the trading aspect of Battle.Net a complete joke for "legitimate" players.

I mean, I remember one of the last times I was on B.Net, the trading channel, people were throwing around high tier runes, SoJs, etc like they were practically nothing, when someone like me barely ever sees such things.

This is true of all online game economies, which is why I hate them all with a burning passion :p

Time for some self-reflection I guess? :P Haha, I tend to play fewer games, but the ones that I do, I play a lot of. I played this game very intensively for about 7 years or so and usually still tend to make at least one new character a year, though I don't usually play for longer than a month or so. Unfortunately, after all these years, my characters finally completely expired, which is a real shame :( However, I still have some forum gold left in order to deck out one character who I'd like.

Ultimately, I still disagree with you. I don't see how me leveling a character quickly is going to ruin your gameplay? In the end, all of the noobs will do anything to get into Baal runs that the 'pros' organise, because when they go with the other scrubs, a run takes them forever and often fails. This has the effect of evening out the player base, because the ones at the top carry the ones at the bottom.

Explain how my play is 'illegitimate'? All I'm doing is leveling quickly. If I did this 'manually' it would still probably take me a few days at max, so what's the big deal?

As for the inflation, this is the result of duping, which I endorse, but only to a certain extent. Certain items in the game (high runes) are so ridiculously stupidly fair that the game is more balanced as a result of duping rather than without it. In my almost a decade of play, I have myself found one Ber and a couple of Vex'es. The game doesn't reward the 'hard-working', it rewards the lucky. What you need is some level of duping that balances the game economy to a reasonable extent as a result of which people have a shot of getting rich, but it is still very, very, very hard.

And then you've got the Americans. The economies of US servers are fucked beyond repair due to retardedly irresponsible duping. So don't blame me, blame your fellow countrymen. If you want to have a very solid, challenging and rewarding gaming experience in D2, play on the European server. If you want to have a truly 'hardcore' D2 experience with very little duping etc, play on the Asian server, though I really recommend against it.


Anyway, sorry for adulterating this thread. Maybe someone should make a separate topic about this?

Resistance: Fall of Man and Resistance 2.

I heard good things from my friends so I decided to buy them both. I have to say, that is the last time I listen to my friends advice.

For me it would be games like Deus Ex 2, Bioshock (because SS2 was so amazing), Command & Conquer 4 (truly terrible in every way), Daikatana (John Romero - epic LoL), Dragon Age 2 (rushed game), Icewind Dale 2 (bigger and harder but without any charm of the first game), KOTOR 2 (I HATE Obsidian) and AvP 2010 (terrible controls, boring levels and bland gameplay).
None of these games are bad per se but they certainly didn't live up to my expectations - and I usually don't have high expectations anyway.

.... answer your own question, eh?

Now, you will note that in my original post, I used quotes on 'legitimate', it was used in reference to 'those who play the game the way it was meant to be played'. Taking 3-4 hours to be PL'ed to 80 is NO different than using an editor to make a character level 80, I'm sorry.

Now, I'm all for people cheating and playing a singleplayer game how they want, duping, hacking, etc. but when you switch that on to a persistent multiplayer server, that's where the problem rises. There, you mingle with the normal player and you ruin the games economy, and end up teaching new players "the way to play", so they come to think that's what's normal.

Don't even get me -started- on duping. It's not 'OK' it's not 'fine in moderation'. It's cheating.

Lastly, the only way to really get the proper gaming experience for Diablo 2, is to play it single player, maybe occasionally on Open B.Net with friends, because there the game isn't constantly being fucked up beyond all repair by countless cheaters and powergamers.

Off topic, but what does this mean? I'm assuming it checks in with Valve before you can play?... but all the stuff I'm seeing on actual Steamworks is propaganda for the "features" like auto patching and achievements, etc (things I don't care about and really don't want). Is steamworks just another way of saying, its the same as buying a game from STEAM?

My assumption is that this means the retail boxed copy will require internet to play single player? Any clarification that others know would be appreciated. Thanks.

Bottom line: yes, you'll need internet. It's just like a SecuROM activation scheme. No internet=no play.

Of note: After activating on Steam, you should be able to set up the Steam client to allow you to subsequently play offline.

Thanks for the clarification. I'll find another game to play :/ (adds to disappointment list)

I think will add a few more considering that I only listed L.A. Noire

1. Shenmue II- I loved the first game at the time but this was a major step down in terms of quality. As a matter of fact, the only part of the game that I actually liked was the 1st chapter... Chapter 2 & 3 were atrocious. You have that fat dude chasing you the entire 2nd chapter & Ryo is scared shitless of him.... yet he wants to fight Lan Di who is like a thousand times better of a fighter than him... yep that makes sense. Then all you do in the 3rd chapter is walk (not run) through a forest talking to Shenhua for roughly 3 LONG HOURS (at least it felt like it). I honestly don't see why some people feel it is a superior game.

2. EVERY Sonic game besides Sonic Adventure 1-2 & Colors (No seriously... all of them)- The first Sonic game I ever played was actually Sonic Adventure. I had never owned (or used for that matter) a Sega console until the Dreamcast... that being said I think it goes without saying that I didn't play the classic games when they were new. Thing is that for a person without a bit of nostalgia they don't exactly hold up as well as they are made out too... in many ways they are very boring. As for the games after Adventure 2... they all sucked, Starting with Heroes the series really started getting shittier & shittier with each new release. Sonic '06 & Sonic Unleashed are currently tied for my least favorite game of all time... what steaming piles of shit.