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France went all the way down the drain. The jerky socialist lost the election, the jerky communist just won the election.

It will make fall of the France faster, so the difference is minimal.

ps. omlette au fromage !
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timppu: I'm actually more interested on the elections in Greece, I think it has much more meaning for the future of EU and euro.
No. France is the second major power in EU, so it's ultra important who is ruling France.
Post edited May 07, 2012 by keeveek
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keeveek: France went all the way down the drain. The jerky socialist lost the election, the jerky communist just won the election.

It will make fall of the France faster, so the difference is minimal.

ps. omlette au fromage !
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timppu: I'm actually more interested on the elections in Greece, I think it has much more meaning for the future of EU and euro.
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keeveek: No. France is the second major power in EU, so it's ultra important who is ruling France.
Actually it's the socialist that won the election, the communist party (Melenchon) just won approximativly 11% of the votes on the 1st round. Sarkozy represented the capitalism party, but it finally lost, had been in power since mitterand (before 1997 If i recall correctly)

But even the capitalism party in France has socialist tendencies, unlike some other countries where it's radical, this is why it can seem like socialists were in power.
Sarkozy... capitalism... Me lol'd :-)

You know, it's not like when they will call themselves "Ministry of Love" it doesn't mean they love anybody.

Sarkozy's actions were mostly socialist during his presidency, as I could say how it looked like from Poland.

Of course he did some thing strongly for privatisation etc etc. but in a way that failed :P Maybe his domestic policy was capitalism oriented, but his policy in EU was clearly socialist, from my perspective.

We will see what the future brings, though.
Post edited May 07, 2012 by keeveek
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timppu: I'm actually more interested on the elections in Greece, I think it has much more meaning for the future of EU and euro.
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keeveek: No. France is the second major power in EU, so it's ultra important who is ruling France.
So what will change now?

As long as it is not Le Pen, I don't think it _really_ matters to other EU countries who is in charge in France. I am quite confident that France's stance on EU and euro will not change almost at all, even though Sarkozy was replaced by Hollande.

France benefits a lot from the fact that other EU countries partake in saving French banks (which they shouldn't be) with their trash Greek loans, so I don't think Hollande will change France's EU policy that might jeopardize any of that.

For France's domestic politics, it may have more meaning.


Now, as for Greece, if they are now unable to create a credible government that the other EU countries and the French/German/UK banks trust, it may start the chain reaction which crumbles euro, and maybe even EU. Suddenly more and more politicians don't seem to deem it unthinkable anymore that Greece would be kicked out of euro, and maybe even EU.
Post edited May 07, 2012 by timppu
Greece is already lost. They may try to reanimate the corpse, but there's nothing you could really do.

They should try to do something about countries next in line to face Greek fate. Portugal, Spain, italy and even Poland are not so far from what happened in Greece.
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keeveek: Greece is already lost. They may try to reanimate the corpse, but there's nothing you could really do.

They should try to do something about countries next in line to face Greek fate. Portugal, Spain, italy and even Poland are not so far from what happened in Greece.
Kicking out Greece will show the "market forces" that a country can indeed be excluded from euro/EU (causing lots of damage to creditors who believed otherwise), which will mean they will not want to loan any more money to any of those other countries either. There's the chain reaction.
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timppu: Kicking out Greece will show the "market forces" that a country can indeed be excluded from euro/EU (causing lots of damage to creditors who believed otherwise), which will mean they will not want to loan any more money to any of those other countries either. There's the chain reaction.
But these companies profits the MOST on Greece collapse and then trying to restore it. I don't know much about global economy, but they are called hedge funds or something like this.
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keeveek: No. France is the second major power in EU, so it's ultra important who is ruling France.
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timppu: So what will change now?

As long as it is not Le Pen, I don't think it _really_ matters to other EU countries who is in charge in France. I am quite confident that France's stance on EU and euro will not change almost at all, even though Sarkozy was replaced by Hollande.
Here, a preview: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/ticker/markets/default.stm

For one thing, rather than help save Europe, France will now need European help to save their own economy. Except that Europe can't, France is too heavily indebted.
Le Pen would have been better on that point, as she would have left Europe, and she would have been left alone to die.
France benefits a lot from the fact that other EU countries partake in saving French banks (which they shouldn't be) with their trash Greek loans, so I don't think Hollande will change France's EU policy that might jeopardize any of that.
Dexia was one of the main Belgian bank too (and mine, actually). That's why Belgium saved it.
For France's domestic politics, it may have more meaning.


Now, as for Greece, if they are now unable to create a credible government that the other EU countries and the French/German/UK banks trust, it may start the chain reaction which crumbles euro, and maybe even EU. Suddenly more and more politicians don't seem to deem it unthinkable anymore that Greece would be kicked out of euro, and maybe even EU.
France domestic politics will now be to spend heavily to try and reboot the local economy. But, money don't appear out of thin air.

As for Greece, it won't really matter (on an international viewpoint) who get the power there. Before they can do anything, they will need to pay back their debts, which they can't. They will be kicked out of Euro anyway.
Kicking out Greece will show the "market forces" that a country can indeed be excluded from euro/EU (causing lots of damage to creditors who believed otherwise), which will mean they will not want to loan any more money to any of those other countries either. There's the chain reaction.
Money doesn't care for loyalty. Belgium, Germany, the UK, ... will stay solvent, and that's what will matter for investors in the end.
Post edited May 07, 2012 by dksone
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dksone: Money doesn't care for loyalty. Belgium, Germany, the UK, ... will stay solvent, and that's what will matter for investors in the end.
The UK has it's lowest borrowing rate in history at a time when the economy needs money pumped in... and what does the chancellor of the bloody exchequer do?? MASSIVE spending CUTS *facepalm*
Merkollande

Hmmm, now that has a rather nice ring to it, don't you think?

On a serious note, I do hope that Hollande will be a better president than Sarkozy. I never liked the man when I watched him speak at the various EU parliament meetings. Always seemed like a smug little bugger based on his choice of words, when translated at least, and just the way he acted towards others (the Roma and other immigrants...).
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keeveek: ...
They should try to do something about countries next in line to face Greek fate. Portugal, Spain, italy and even Poland are not so far from what happened in Greece.
Oh come on. Poland has it's own currency. Just devaluate when you feel like it.
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keeveek: ...
They should try to do something about countries next in line to face Greek fate. Portugal, Spain, italy and even Poland are not so far from what happened in Greece.
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Trilarion: Oh come on. Poland has it's own currency. Just devaluate when you feel like it.
It's devalued enough, thank you very much. What, you want us to pay 10 PLN for one Euro?
So how is Iceland doing? After their rejection of austerity and the IMF? Last I heard they were doing very well despite all the dire predictions and threats. Is France headed this way? Will the French government be actively resisting the global domination?

I live in the US. Our news media has been compromised. Facts are fictionalized. Good Samaritans made to look like boogeymen. While corrupted lawmakers are dressed as saints. A land where compassion equates to socialism. Where defending the people makes you an enemy of the state. Where even the usage of "the people", tags you as a socialist.

Add to the above, my ignorance of the political and social realities in other countries. I am left wondering if Mr. Hollandes appointment might result in positive change, not just for France but for the world. How else are we to break free the domination, if not for nations to stand up and fight? To suffer the initial pain of separation from the banking cabal, in order to then enjoy the fruits of restored democracy and self determination.
No, basically the european countries are shooting themselves in the foot. And they will continue to do so. The problem is that there is no political union. They don't trust each other. They would like to help each other, but they fear, that help of one nation will be abused by others. So it's a cruel everybody against everybody, but with a common currency. And the pan-european institutions we've got are undemocratic as hell.

However a higher tax rate on rich and more money for education. I like these ideas from Hollande.
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WhiteElk: So how is Iceland doing? After their rejection of austerity and the IMF? Last I heard they were doing very well despite all the dire predictions and threats.
Last I heard, they are thinking of using the canuck dollar as official currency. If that is good or bad is up to interpretation I think ...