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General discussion (archive)Dragon Age 2 demo review(921 posts)(921 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 31, 2011
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Namur: Laidlaw, i sure can understand the company man standing by his product, but for the life of me i don't see why on earth he chose to do so by completely trashing his previous, and incredibly sucessful, product. There's something up with that guy, i'm just not sure what. It sure will be interesting to find out what he has to say about DA2, say, one year from now.
That's the trouble Laidlaw had nothing to do with DA:O. He was the producer of the console versions which were largely reviled. The actual producers of DA:O either left because they didn't like the way DA was going or they were moved to The Old Republic. Laidlaw was the last man left, a man who admits he want's to be working on Mass Effect. That's why we ended up with DA2.
Posted March 31, 2011
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Delixe: That's the trouble Laidlaw had nothing to do with DA:O. He was the producer of the console versions which were largely reviled. The actual producers of DA:O either left because they didn't like the way DA was going or they were moved to The Old Republic. Laidlaw was the last man left, a man who admits he want's to be working on Mass Effect. That's why we ended up with DA2.
When i said 'his' previous product it was more like 'his company' previous product.

In any case, he was the lead designer of Origins along with Brent Knowles and James Ohlen or at least that's what it says in the credits.
Posted March 31, 2011
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Namur: In any case, he was the lead designer of Origins along with Brent Knowles and James Ohlen or at least that's what it says in the credits.
It's quite clear Knowles and Ohlen were the driving force behind Origins at least from Knowles blog. Laidlaw was Lead Designer for Jade Empire and Sonic Chonicles. Exactly the wrong man to be in charge of the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.
Posted March 31, 2011
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Namur: RPS, What went wrong in Dragon Age II
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Delixe: Best review so far. The single biggest problem with the game is calling it a sequel to DA:O which it clearly isn't. It's a reboot with all the baggage a reboot comes with.
Why did they reboot a game that was less than a year old?
Posted March 31, 2011
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drmlessgames: Why did they reboot a game that was less than a year old?
The question a lot of people want answered.
Posted March 31, 2011
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Delixe: It's quite clear Knowles and Ohlen were the driving force behind Origins at least from Knowles blog. Laidlaw was Lead Designer for Jade Empire and Sonic Chonicles. Exactly the wrong man to be in charge of the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.
That may very well be but the guy has his name on the credits as lead designer, i'm pretty sure he wouldn't if he hadn't pulled his own weight as lead designer during DAO's dev cycle, driving force or not ;)

Sure, Knowles seems to have left because he was unhappy with where Bioware was going in general and DA2 in particular, but it's a bit of a stretch to go from there to 'Laidlaw had nothing to do with DAO'.
Posted March 31, 2011
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Namur: That may very well be but the guy has his name on the credits as lead designer, i'm pretty sure he wouldn't if he hadn't pulled his own weight as lead designer during DAO's dev cycle, driving force or not ;)
He still get's his name on the credits as lead designer but he was only lead designer on the PS3 and Xbox360 versions.
Posted March 31, 2011
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Delixe: He still get's his name on the credits as lead designer but he was only lead designer on the PS3 and Xbox360 versions.
I don't know about that, haven't seen nothing to actually back that up.

From what i gather when Knowles decided he wanted no part of DA2, and we don't know why exaclty, he's quite vague on the whole subject without offering any real specifics, which is understandable, he stepped down from an active role as lead designer on the console versions even if he did stayed on for months after that, i'm assuming still working on the project just not as active lead designer on console versions anymore. That's as much as i can gather, which says exactly nothing about Laidlaw's participation on PC or consoles, but it's possible i'm missing some data on the subject

In any case DA2 is mostly on his head and some of his statements about the future of RPG's and such worry me a bit, i definitely wonder if maybe someone else should step in as lead, assuming there will be a DA3.

I only wish that if he ends up going he takes Silverman with him ;)
Posted March 31, 2011
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Namur: In any case DA2 is mostly on his head and some of his statements about the future of RPG's and such worry me a bit, i definitely wonder if maybe someone else should step in as lead, assuming there will be a DA3.
There certainly will be a DA3 simply because EA care about money and they will want to know why DA2 tanked after DA:O was such a huge hit. I would imagine DLC sales (or lack of) will also further hurt DA2 and EA will look to the sales of DA:O DLC and wonder why that wasn't a hit either. Either the two doctors will be forced to shake things up and return DA to it's roots or Laidlaw will persuade the mucky mucks that he wasn't allowed to go far enough. Either way we will get a DA3. If it's slated for March 2012 you will know Laidlaw managed to keep his job.

As for Laidlaw himself I think it was either his Linkdin account or his Wiki someone linked on the BSN but his credits clearly say Lead Designer: Jade Empire, Sonic Chronicles, Dragon Age: Origins (Xbox360, PS3), Dragon Age 2.
Posted March 31, 2011
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Namur: In any case DA2 is mostly on his head and some of his statements about the future of RPG's and such worry me a bit, i definitely wonder if maybe someone else should step in as lead, assuming there will be a DA3.
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Delixe: There certainly will be a DA3 simply because EA care about money and they will want to know why DA2 tanked after DA:O was such a huge hit. I would imagine DLC sales (or lack of) will also further hurt DA2 and EA will look to the sales of DA:O DLC and wonder why that wasn't a hit either. Either the two doctors will be forced to shake things up and return DA to it's roots or Laidlaw will persuade the mucky mucks that he wasn't allowed to go far enough. Either way we will get a DA3. If it's slated for March 2012 you will know Laidlaw managed to keep his job.
I guess we'll see, this is a big year for Bioware and all bets are off, lot of things can happen, includind SWTOR surprising everybody by actually turning out to be an ok game ;)
Posted April 01, 2011
For those interested the new nVidia beta drivers make DX11 mode run smooth as butter.
Posted April 01, 2011
In regards to the lead designer dicussion, from reading Knowles blog it appears that he took time off towards the end as a 'break', and that it was when he returned that he saw the direction DA2 was going in and then he was put on a different project that he realised was never actually going to lead to anything... Now this is just theory, but that sounds to me like Brent 'lost' at some company politics that were going on, that maybe he was usurped by Laidlaw and then put in an out of the way place to avoid causing trouble. I'm sure we were all horrified by the rather bad marketing of DAO before release with the Marilyn Manson's "This is the new shit" rubbish, we all blamed EA for that but maybe that was the Laidlaw influence gaining ground? I often felt that DAO was trying to be something more but seemed to back off or shoot itself in the foot quite often...

Complete conjecture I know, but as anyone whose worked in a big company can attest, politics is everywhere, even if it's something as simple as "Who gets the tea?" Which reminds me, I had better get the teas in...
Post edited April 01, 2011 by FlintlockJazz
Posted April 01, 2011
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FlintlockJazz: In regards to the lead designer dicussion, from reading Knowles blog it appears that he took time off towards the end as a 'break', and that it was when he returned that he saw the direction DA2 was going in and then he was put on a different project that he realised was never actually going to lead to anything... Now this is just theory, but that sounds to me like Brent 'lost' at some company politics that were going on, that maybe he was usurped by Laidlaw and then put in an out of the way place to avoid causing trouble. I'm sure we were all horrified by the rather bad marketing of DAO before release with the Marilyn Manson's "This is the new shit" rubbish, we all blamed EA for that but maybe that was the Laidlaw influence gaining ground? I often felt that DAO was trying to be something more but seemed to back off or shoot itself in the foot quite often...

Complete conjecture I know, but as anyone whose worked in a big company can attest, politics is everywhere, even if it's something as simple as "Who gets the tea?" Which reminds me, I had better get the teas in...
I would guess Laidlaw really fits with their streamlined and mainstream future, appearances-wise. I am sure politics might have a lot to do with that as well. The real question is how will Laidlaw (and Gaider) be treated following this disappointing release? If it was just hardcore fans bitching I doubt they would even get a talking to, but with a 79 metacritic, lower sales and a lot of disappointment from various avenues I find it hard to believe those two would be given the reigns again.

What do I know though.
Posted April 01, 2011
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StingingVelvet: I would guess Laidlaw really fits with their streamlined and mainstream future, appearances-wise. I am sure politics might have a lot to do with that as well. The real question is how will Laidlaw (and Gaider) be treated following this disappointing release? If it was just hardcore fans bitching I doubt they would even get a talking to, but with a 79 metacritic, lower sales and a lot of disappointment from various avenues I find it hard to believe those two would be given the reigns again.

What do I know though.
Aye, it could even be the reason Laidlaw is defending it so strongly: if DA2 'fails' by whatever yardstick they're using then he may end up being the one sacrificed by having the blame pinned on him whether it was his fault or not.

Bioware definitely seems to be more interested in making cinematic games rather than the actual RPG mechanics, hell there's an interview with one of the writers (Mary Kirby I think) who said that they would like a ''skip combat' button like you do with the dialogue for women gamers (she was asked what she thought female gamers would like most). Someone once made the point that maybe Bioware should just give up on the pretense and start making Heavy Rain-esque style games instead as that seems to be more what they actually trying to do, I'm starting to agree with them.
Posted April 02, 2011
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Namur: Sometimes i don't know if i should be utterly pissed at Bioware for DA2 or extremely grateful for DAO since it's unlikely we'll ever get another RPG similar in scope to DAO again.
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Delixe: I don't blame BioWare or EA there is clearly only one person to blame. Mike Laidlaw has spent the last few months telling us how shit DA:O was. DA2 is exactly the game he wanted to make.
I've been blaming EA for everything since 2000 though. I've intense hatred for them. All my favourite game franchises came to ruin under their hands. Simcity and other Sim games, C&C, Bullfrog games, and now my RPGs. For quite a number of years, especially after they announced Simcity Societies, I've been going around mentioning they're a bad company going after money and destroying game quality.

However, I don't like Mike Laidlaw as well.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Dragon Age 2 demo review(921 posts)(921 posts)
(921 posts)