It should also be mentioned that he is also a COMPLETE FUCKING IDIOT. *ahem* Sorry.

Nobody's prefect. I mean one hardly ever ends up being stalked by a deranged possessed ex, right?

I wouldn't know, really. My female Hawke told him to take a hike and happily took the rivalry hit. Since the game is all around ass and i won't be going in for a second run i guess i won't find out.

Yeah, that's another one of his many endeering personality traits ;)

Good point, you might as well go for it.

The last six posts completely lost me.

Sorry to derail the very interesting turn this thread has taken, but I did want to take a moment and reply to one thing that actually hit the heart of what I was getting at.

Of course, you are correct hedwards. In the sense that most people take the word "fair" it is only fair and he shouldn't be bellyaching just because in one circumstance he was not catered to (Gaider makes just such a point).

My concern is, you don't like it (presumably, only you can say for sure) and and responding what may be perceived as a "too damned bad" dismissal (whether that's what you're trying to communicate or not) seems less likely to ensure people like Baltas actually think about this stuff.

Honestly, I grew up in a house where I was told that "gayness" was a choice and people could be cured of it if they only would choose to try. Also, god didn't like those sorts of people. In my community it was common to say "that's gay" or make a friendly taunt "you're a fag". I know I was completely ignorant and I never had to face up to it really. There was no big moment where my best buddy revealed to me he was gay or that I suddenly wondered if I might be gay so I had to think long and hard about the whole thing versus what society held forth as common sense. I just grew up (not physically so much as emotionally).

When I heard about this kid, I just thought "Ah another angsty, ignorant asshole, on the internet too, what a surprise!" Then I read it. He's wrong for all the reasons you pointed out, and yet he's being genuine. He doesn't seem to be trolling, he is trying to communicate his point of view and ask for something he feels a large group of people want.

I'm not sure what it is, but I hope there's a better way to encourage people like Baltas to re-evaluate their pre-conceived notions. I think going the "hey, it's only fair" route, while technically correct (the best kind of correct!) is unlikely to do so.

I agree, acceding to his request would be counterproductive.

Fenris came on to me hard in our first conversation in his house. Merril talks about wanting Hawke in companion chatter all the time.

All I can say is none of that happened to me. I guess we made different choices.

I find it fascinating that you can have gay, straight, and/or bisexual romances in Jade Empire. Heck, you can even have a threesome if you're really clever about it. But in JE, the romances were believable, and were well-executed even though there was basically identical dialog regardless of gender. And then DA2 comes out and tries to pull the same trick but fails miserably.

It just comes down to the writing and just how lazy BioWare were with DA2. Isabela and Leliana are both bisexual characters but there is an ocean of depth between the characters. Isabela likes sex and that's about it. Leliana uses sex but if you choose a female Warden you find out Leliana is actually more attracted to women than men and which explains the control Marjolaine had over her.

The issue I've got there is that ultimately it is too damn bad. Whether or not the game handled that bit of dialogue optimally at this point, that's how the game was released and changing it now is just acceding to the demands.

Now, if the game were being made now, that would be a different story. What I've gotten from this is that a lot of folks are annoyed because it was jarring and at a point which makes it less narrative interesting. That aspect I get, but that's really not a matter of failing to cater to straight gamers, that's a matter of flubbing the plot point.

But, as to your concern, this isn't like feminism which is as we speak snuffing out large swathes of traditional male culture in the name of equality, it's a couple references total in a sea of heterosexual depictions. Hell, even lesbian depictions in normal media vastly overwhelm the few references to male homosexuality.

OTOH, if this game used a joystick and made some clever use of said joystick, that would clearly be way over the line.

Heh, I personally thought it was kind of funny how in FO:NV there were plenty of places where you could have your character get it on with members of either sex. Censored of course because any sort of sex in video games is bad, mkay.

I'm not sure I understand what he's complaining about. Is it just the disposition rating system in DA2 as it relates to same-sex romantic relationships? Consider the 99% of the rest of games ever made, ever, that are aimed at the "straight male". Would someone do some digging on him? I wanna see if he had some complaints about Saint's Row not being aimed at the "white male" or some shit like that.

Unless the "romance" part is integral to the core plot, in a "dude kidnapped other dude's girlfriend", the I treat these little diversions as just that, diversions. It's like trying to keep up with all those girls in GTA IV, not to mention the guys (but you get more of a "reward" for keeping up a good disposition rating with the male friends, in the form of extra side jobs or someone to get your ass out of a bad situation). It's not like DA2 is all about the romantic relationships, like a Japanese dating sim.

New Vegas is a good example of how to do it right. Sexuality is defined by the character not by the needs of the player. Veronica is a lesbian and no matter how hawt the Courier is he won't be getting any joy there. Arcade I really liked. He was gay but it was never an issue with him, you could choose to flirt with him or not if not then we can still be bros's it's cool. New Vegas has in many ways a childish attitude to sex but at the same time it's also one of the most adult games ever written and probably for that reason.

I think what I understand is: that given Bioware had a small release schedule (18 Months) and limited funds in which to get the game out the door - they should have focused on a solid game that would have hit their largest core followers and not spent the time and money trying to be all inclusive - especially in the romance dept. - A valid point that gets lost due to the highly sexualized Thread Title and subsequent rants.