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HGiles: Re: Heels, high-heeled shoes have wavered between a man's style, a woman's style and a both-genders style for millennia. Ancient Egyptians of both genders wore heels, during the European Middle Ages platform shoes were a both-gender thing, and during the 17th century it was common to see French lords in 3-4 inch heels. Which, between the crazy wigs and crazy heels makes me wonder how those dudes got around. Lots of servants to catch them when they wobbled? Anyway, an evolutionary psychology approach is pretty much invalidated by historical data. High heels are a cultural thing. Women wear them now to look sexy, men used to wear them to look imposing, and everyone used to wear them to keep nice shoes out of the dirt.
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shadowmirage: I'm female, although I probably don't count as the conventional kind (whatever that is) :). I've always been into computers and gaming - I don't think that's unusual, but most of my female friends are only casual gamers, admittedly. Maybe that's why I have more male friends.
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HGiles: You've got all the right equipment, yes? Then you're a conventional woman. :) There are really quite a few women who like all kinds of video games - and there are more women who get into them once they have some support and don't have to try to take on the video gaming old boys' club alone.
Hah! The last time I checked, yes XD. I suppose what I meant by "conventional" is what is socially accepted in the culture I live in. Most people agree that I am not particularly conventional when it comes to my interests. But then again, my interests are quite eclectic, ranging from cryptography, mythology, and programming to retro-gaming. I would love to live in an environment where people don't judge a person by their gender, but unfortunately, for me that's impossible at the moment. People expect certain things of me because I'm female, and I'm simply not interested in living up to these imaginary standards. Luckily, I have a few good friends who accept me for who I am.
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USERNAME:HGiles#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:331#Q&_^Q&Q#You've got all the right equipment, yes? Then you're a conventional woman. :)#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:331#Q&_^Q&Q#
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Um. You did read the "conventional" part, right? Trans people are definitely not conventional. There's nothing wrong with not being conventional, and it's definitely not an insult where I'm from, IDK where you're from.

I wasn't intending to be insulting. I was just trying to point out that allowing cultural pressures to shame you into something is silly. It was a bit tongue in cheek, I'll go add an emoticon or something to clear that up.
Post edited October 20, 2012 by HGiles
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USERNAME:HGiles#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:335#Q&_^Q&Q#Um. You did read the "conventional" part, right? Trans people are definitely not conventional. That's all I said. I wasn't intending to be insulting. I was just trying to point out that allowing cultural pressures to shame you into something is silly. It was a bit tongue in cheek, I'll go add an emoticon or something to clear that up.#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:335#Q&_^Q&Q#
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Conventional can be used a synonym for traditional or common. Transpeople are people and worth just as much as anyone else, but they are certainly not traditional or common.

I was reacting to shadowmirage's statement that she's not a conventional woman because she likes games, by pointing out that if she has the right equipment (please note the present tense) she is a conventional woman, as in meets the traditional and common definition. People whose genitals do not match their gender are not conventional, as in neither common nor traditional (although there is definitely a whole 'nother debate about gender definition in non-Western, non-modern cultures that is worthwhile, but probably irrelevant).

As I said in my earlier post, where I live saying that something isn't conventional is like saying that something isn't blue. It's not really an emotionally loaded word. I'm sorry you took it in an emotionally loaded way. I certainly didn't intend to offend anyone.

Re: the random rant about feeling people up, no, I don't do that. I trust the people I see to have a handle on that, and if someone's presenting as female, great, whatever. But one's body does have a significant impact on one's self, and the very fact that transpeople get so upset when their genitals don't match their gender shows that genitals are an important aspect of someone's self. Saying that doesn't mean saying that trans people are lesser. You even acknowledge that when you talk about "implying a belief". You're right - that's an implication you read into my statement.

Again, I'm sorry that you got offended. There was no intent to offend, and I wasn't trying to say anything that was negative about transpeople.

EDIT: I make one edit to fix a spelling mistake, and all the paragraph lines got taken out again. >.<
Post edited October 20, 2012 by HGiles
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Aaron86: I believe the correct term is "trans".
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Azarr: Transgender people, I believe it is. The second part is really important.
yea, I always think of transparent people when people say just "trans". It's just such a supressed race :(
Dramaaaaa. HGiles just means conventionnal as "normal", "usual", "statistically average", "institutionally non-debated", etc. Damuna points out that setting normality frontiers between "behaviour" and "equipment" is as arbitrary as setting it within behaviours. I don't think there's necessarily much opposition between both point of views. It's just a matter of acceptation of the notion of normality somewhere between what the poster would personally consider "normal" and what he assumes his society would consider "normal" ("normal" as opposed to either "exceptionnal" or "transgressive").

Genders are a hugely magnificently chaotic shitfest, made almost exclusively of exceptions to arbitrary rules. Once you start saying "oh don't worry, that is totally normal", you push something else into abnormality (by contrast), and shift the polemical term a bit farther. This all depends on what is intended to say. That is, the "whatever that is" in "I probably don't count as the conventionnal woman". It's contextual. A woman who doesn't have three DVD /Blue-ray editions of "Dirty Dancing" in her living room can be "non-conventionnal", a woman who doesn't aim at marriage and procreation can be "non-conventionnal", a woman who falls in love with a woman can be "non-conventionnal", a woman with a penis can be "non-conventionnal", etc. Conventions are, by definition, relative to a certain institutionnal context, or to a certain discussion's framework.
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Telika: Dramaaaaa. HGiles just means conventionnal as "normal", "usual", "statistically average", "institutionally non-debated", etc. Damuna points out that setting normality frontiers between "behaviour" and "equipment" is as arbitrary as setting it within behaviours. I don't think there's necessarily much opposition between both point of views. It's just a matter of acceptation of the notion of normality somewhere between what the poster would personally consider "normal" and what he assumes his society would consider "normal" ("normal" as opposed to either "exceptionnal" or "transgressive"). Genders are a hugely magnificently chaotic shitfest, made almost exclusively of exceptions to arbitrary rules. Once you start saying "oh don't worry, that is totally normal", you push something else into abnormality (by contrast), and shift the polemical term a bit farther. This all depends on what is intended to say. That is, the "whatever that is" in "I probably don't count as the conventionnal woman". It's contextual. A woman who doesn't have three DVD /Blue-ray editions of "Dirty Dancing" in her living room can be "non-conventionnal", a woman who doesn't aim at marriage and procreation can be "non-conventionnal", a woman who falls in love with a woman can be "non-conventionnal", a woman with a penis can be "non-conventionnal", etc. Conventions are, by definition, relative to a certain institutionnal context, or to a certain discussion's framework.
Yeah, I meant "statistically average". Perils of academic conferences is getting one's head stuck in the clouds and forgetting that people don't always interpret things in terms of statistics. My bad.
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Stockpile: yea, I always think of transparent people when people say just "trans". It's just such a supressed race :(
Transparent people are those who don't really fit in with either parent, no?
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HGiles: Re: the random rant about feeling people up, no, I don't do that.
Tsk tsk. You miss out.
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Stockpile: yea, I always think of transparent people when people say just "trans". It's just such a supressed race :(
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Miaghstir: Transparent people are those who don't really fit in with either parent, no?
oh, but.. I meant literally transparent. Ghosts and stuff.
am I the only one who thought shemales = "conventional" guys posing as girls just to get attention, have fun, break other guys' e-hearts etc. i met too many such guys in my mmorpg days.

it might seem random but it made me feel bad, so apologies damuna, if it seemed that i found transgender people funny.
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Adzeth: So, could someone explain why men in general don't wear high heels? I'd rather have it so that no one wears them, but when I ask men who like high heels about why they like 'em, they say that high heels make the butt look better and that is why women should wear 'em. Don't men want their butt to look good?
I keep on twisting my ankle.
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Elmofongo: My avatar is male lol EDIT: you wanna know what I despise, males who put ponies as their avatars it leads to freaking confusion.
You wanna know what I despise, males who are "confused" because someone has a pony as avatar (what the fuck seriously?).
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USERNAME:dr.zli#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:309#Q&_^Q&Q#so after 16 pages of posts, do we know if there are any shemales on GOG?#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:309#Q&_^Q&Q#
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USERNAME:Azarr#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:320#Q&_^Q&Q#Transgender people, I believe it is. The second part is really important.#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:320#Q&_^Q&Q#
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1. Transgendered person I know didn't find the term offensive
2. It was written so it would point to absurdity of original post and 16 pages or unneeded banter
3. I don't like explaining my intentions in my forum posts but since I know your story and don't want to offend you in any way I just did it. *grumble grumble*

please don't be offended by sheer amount of idiocy that's written here, some of us write stuff on this forum just to let off some steam/have fun in playful banter.
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dr.zli: please don't be offended by sheer amount of idiocy that's written here, some of us write stuff on this forum just to let off some steam/have fun in playful banter.
Oh yeah, let's all write racists or sexists comments, and that's okay, because we're just letting off some steam...
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dr.zli: please don't be offended by sheer amount of idiocy that's written here, some of us write stuff on this forum just to let off some steam/have fun in playful banter.
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Emualynk: Oh yeah, let's all write racists or sexists comments, and that's okay, because we're just letting off some steam...
/insert random french bashing comment