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re: Blow's tweet from 2012 - Saying someone was BEING something isn't the same as saying they ARE something. Someone asked him about the game coming to GOG and he said something that maybe he shouldn't have. It was after a protracted negotiation process that left Blow frustrated. Nevertheless, GOG was still interested in bringing THE WITNESS here. As a customer, I don't care about contracts and egos, I just want the game.

http://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/the_witness
http://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/braid
Post edited February 02, 2016 by Barry_Woodward
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skeletonbow: There really is no place for such extreme emotional displays over stuff like this. He says he doesn't really need or care about GOG but if that is really true then not being able to negotiate terms that work for him well would be of no real emotional consequence. The fact that he's even being that emotional over it shows that it is important enough to even have such emotions to begin with.
I think it's more likely that he's just frustrated in general with publishers/distributors. I'm obviously operating at a much lower level than Blow is, but I've gotten pretty impatient with this sort of thing as well. I regularly get people trying to cajole free keys out of me, I've had several publishers (the small ones that lurk Greenlight) contact me offering sub-optimal deals, bundle sites asking to buy keys for pennies on the dollar, etc. It can get frustrating after awhile. I have no doubt that Blow deals with the same thing, just on a much higher level.

That said, I agree that it's probably unprofessional and unwise for him to be badmouthing GOG publicly about a private contract deal. And given that none of us actually know what was in the contract, either party could be being unresonable.
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chevkoch: the dev having called GOG "dicks" in the past.
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tfishell: I've seen that quoted a lot, but we should remember that a lot can change in three years time, GOG was just starting to get into indie games then, and we don't know the spe'dick'ics x-P (maybe Blow was misinformed about 40/60 or something).
Sure, who knows what could happen after some time has passed since then? Maybe GOG wants to approach him once more sometime.
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tfishell: I've seen that quoted a lot, but we should remember that a lot can change in three years time, GOG was just starting to get into indie games then, and we don't know the spe'dick'ics x-P (maybe Blow was misinformed about 40/60 or something).
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chevkoch: Sure, who knows what could happen after some time has passed since then? Maybe GOG wants to approach him once more sometime.
They already did, here's some of his Twitter responses...

https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/685322401320583170
https://twitter.com/cmuratori/status/685338375356678144

Nice how Mr. Blow wants to make everything public...
Not looking promising...
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RWarehall: The fact that you are jumping in with your ignorance and proclaiming how many millions of dollars there are at hand, how negotiation with Mr. Blow require lawyers for weeks, etc. You make things out to be way more complicated than reality.
None of this is what I've been saying. What I was saying was that negotiating the deals and drawing up contracts is likely to be more complicated than you make them up to be (especially when big corporations are involved) and since it is a business where millions of dollars are at stake (in general, not for every deal), lawyers are quite likely to be involved in the process. At least someone like Disney should be able to afford them for more than just a quick readthrough of the contracts.

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RWarehall: It just shows you know jack about business.
I don't know much about how business with big corporations usually is made, that is true. But I'm also not acting like a know-it-all, pretending to know things like whether Disney accepted the contract GOG offered them as it was and throwing insults left and right like the first prize in the asshole competition was at stake.
Post edited February 03, 2016 by Mrstarker
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Mrstarker: I don't know much about how business with big corporations usually is made, that is true. But I'm also not acting like a know-it-all, pretending to know things like whether Disney accepted the contract GOG offered them as it was and throwing insults left and right like the first prize in the asshole competition was at stake.
Right, you aren't trying to be insulting...stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

The one thing you are right about is you don't know business. Both GoG and Disney have been doing business for quite awhile. Those involved in the negotiations don't need lawyers standing over their shoulders. They'll trade each other's NDAs. They'll share each others basic contracts. They'll negotiate terms. Then they'll send it off to the lawyers to put what was agreed to into writing.

Usually the only difference between big corporations and small businesses is that big corporations need to consult with more people within their organizations which may add more delays to the process. I'm sure Disney's marketing department had some input for example. But when it comes down to the contracts, they are all going to be a variation of the contracts they use all the time.

Starmaker gets it, you are just clueless.
Post edited February 03, 2016 by RWarehall
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RWarehall: Right, you aren't trying to be insulting...stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
Where was I trying to be insulting? Or do you take the simple act of questioning your assumptions as an insult?
Post edited February 03, 2016 by Mrstarker
Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I don't feel much respect towards the many people these days that feel they have to have play out their bitch-sessions / cry-sessions in full public view on twitter or facebook.

GROW THE F' UP
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RWarehall: Right, you aren't trying to be insulting...stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
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Mrstarker: Where was I trying to be insulting? Or do you take the simple act of questioning your assumptions as an insult?
Let's see "throwing insults left and right like the first prize in the asshole competition"...
Seriously, fuck off...
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Mrstarker: Where was I trying to be insulting? Or do you take the simple act of questioning your assumptions as an insult?
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RWarehall: Let's see "throwing insults left and right like the first prize in the asshole competition"...
Seriously, fuck off...
I only said that after you went out of your way* to be a condescending asshole to me. What goes around...

* or maybe for you it's par for the course
Post edited February 03, 2016 by Mrstarker
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Barry_Woodward: snip
Barry, are is a form of the verb to be... what exactly is the semantical distinction you see between:

A - you are a dick
B - you are being a dick

I have to say this comment of yours has me reevaluating you. The present continuous (or whatever it's called) does not negate the attribution, at most it limits it in time. I'm really puzzled...

Zeo help? Can you figure this one out?
And there are already speed runs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UobXYkvjJM
Post edited February 03, 2016 by lepke1979
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Barry_Woodward: As a customer, I don't care about contracts and egos, I just want the game.
So get it on or [url=https://www.humblebundle.com/store/p/thewitness_storefront]Humble. Unless you do care about contracts and egos, and getting Blow's games on GOG is one of your ego-feeding projects.
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RWarehall: Let's see "throwing insults left and right like the first prize in the asshole competition"...
Seriously, fuck off...
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Mrstarker: I only said that after you went out of your way* to be a condescending asshole to me. What goes around...

* or maybe for you it's par for the course
I've worked on a million dollar project before. Can't say any more, you know NDA. The fact that you seem to think correcting you on your naivete regarding the influence of lawyers in business is not condescension. The fact you seem to fall back to the "but how can we know about the contracts of Disney work". Well you can know, if you've ever worked in any industry where your clients are both big and small.

Obviously the contract will be longer when you are talking however many games were involved with Lucas Arts and the fact that there was an organized marketing plan, but at the end of the day, when it comes to the basic contract for one's normal services like a game or games up for sale on GoG, the contracts will be remarkably similar. Maybe because of volume, the costs of services are discounted, maybe a few other concessions are made. As to lawyers, they will get paid more, the contract is longer, but they aren't the ones calling the shots, nor making the business decisions.

But the fact is you don't have any clue what you are talking about, and have proved it post after post says all that needs to be said about your attitude. You call me condescending when you seem to think you've needed to correct me for days...
Post edited February 03, 2016 by RWarehall
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RWarehall: The fact you seem to fall back to the "but how can we know about the contracts of Disney work". Well you can know, if you've ever worked in any industry where your clients are both big and small. Well you can know, if you've ever worked in any industry where your clients are both big and small.
I have not been saying "but how can we know about the contracts of Disney work". What I have been saying basically boils down to "how do you know how the deal between GOG and Disney was concluded" and it's precisely because there are few people who know exactly how these deals with big corporations work. Disney is not merely another client for GOG as any random small developer would be. In fact, I'm willing to bet that it's GOG that has to convince big companies like Disney, not the other way around.

And, like I said, there is probably a standard contract that they start with (or, more likely, several contracts to account for different countries' laws, etc.), but to suggest that every contract has to be the same, whether it's with a big multinational corporation or just a guy in a basement is a bit too hard to believe for me. And likewise I find it hard to believe that Disney just signs it without even getting lawyers involved.


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RWarehall: But the fact is you don't have any clue what you are talking about, and have proved it post after post says all that needs to be said about your attitude. You call me condescending when you seem to think you've needed to correct me for days...
I have not been "correcting" you. I merely questioned your claims and I provided my reasons for doing so. And in fact, I did ask whether you had any proof for your claims and was quite interested in hearing it. Also, two days of posting in a thread is hardly anything remarkable.

What I got was you talking down to me, suggesting that I was living in a fantasy land, that I was on crack, that what I'm saying is a load of crap, etc. All that for merely suggesting that things might be different than what you say.