Posted August 17, 2013
triock
Can You Face Your Fears?
triock Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2010
From Slovakia
amok
FREEEEDOOOM!!!!
amok Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United Kingdom
Ghorpm
Zielony Brzydal
Ghorpm Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jan 2012
From Poland
Posted August 17, 2013
Why do you think it's original? Most manuscripts have chi-xi-sigma (666) while some other have indeed chi-iota-sigma (616) but there are some which have chi-xi-epsilon (665) or chi-mu-sigma (646) so it's quite difficult to say which one is the original... AFAIK most biblicists agree that 666 is the most probable
Elvis is Dead
Find me in STEAM OT
Elvis is Dead Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2012
From Other
Posted August 17, 2013
333, the mark of the Semi-Christ. Yes I've posted that before; nobody ever accused me of being original.
amok
FREEEEDOOOM!!!!
amok Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United Kingdom
Posted August 17, 2013
Ghorpm: Why do you think it's original? Most manuscripts have chi-xi-sigma (666) while some other have indeed chi-iota-sigma (616) but there are some which have chi-xi-epsilon (665) or chi-mu-sigma (646) so it's quite difficult to say which one is the original... AFAIK most biblicists agree that 666 is the most probable
because the manuscript with 616 predates any others. The 666 is agreed on by the church partly because of the triangular neatness and symmetry (God, The Son, The Holy Spirit), and because it echos the number of Christ (888). However, the oldest manuscript recorded with the number is 616.
308 :)
Post edited August 17, 2013 by amok
amok
FREEEEDOOOM!!!!
amok Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United Kingdom
Ghorpm
Zielony Brzydal
Ghorpm Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jan 2012
From Poland
Posted August 17, 2013
Ghorpm: Why do you think it's original? Most manuscripts have chi-xi-sigma (666) while some other have indeed chi-iota-sigma (616) but there are some which have chi-xi-epsilon (665) or chi-mu-sigma (646) so it's quite difficult to say which one is the original... AFAIK most biblicists agree that 666 is the most probable
amok: because the manuscript with 616 predates any others. The 666 is agreed on by the church partly because of the triangular neatness and symmetry (God, The Son, The Holy Spirit), and because it echos the number of Christ (888). However, the oldest manuscript recorded with the number is 616.
amok
FREEEEDOOOM!!!!
amok Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United Kingdom
Posted August 17, 2013
amok: because the manuscript with 616 predates any others.
The 666 is agreed on by the church partly because of the triangular neatness and symmetry (God, The Son, The Holy Spirit), and because it echos the number of Christ (888). However, the oldest manuscript recorded with the number is 616.
Ghorpm: You made me search for my notes ;) But here they are. I guess you are referring to Papyrus 115? Yeah, it predates others but it's still from 3rd century while a Church Father Irenaeus (died 202) claimed that the number of the beast was 666. He was even aware that some people used 616 and disagreed with them so I'm still thinking that it's a bit difficult to say which one was the original. I'm sure that some people insisted on 666 as it has easier to explain theological meaning but it doesn't automatically mean that 666 was not the original one. Mind you, I'm not trying to convince you because, frankly, I have no idea which one is the original. I just remembered hearing about this issue some time ago The 666 is agreed on by the church partly because of the triangular neatness and symmetry (God, The Son, The Holy Spirit), and because it echos the number of Christ (888). However, the oldest manuscript recorded with the number is 616.
Yes, it is Papyrus 115, and it is also problematic as the difference in numbers may only be due to how it is translated, but the general consensus is that it should 616. I think that by the 2'd century, the church had already done quite a lot of reforms and adaptations to what is now considered New Testament and "streamlined" bits of it. Part of this was to have neat symbolics, and 666 is just more photogenic than 616.
Anyway, the only thing I go by is the oldest manuscript it is recorded on, so it may as well be just as wrong. Still, it is a fun little useless fact. I like to collect those.
Fever_Discordia
Don't Panic
Fever_Discordia Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2010
From United Kingdom
Posted August 17, 2013
Kerang, the metal and hard rock magazine used to sell a T-shirt that read '665 - neighbour of the beast' but I always thought that it should be 664 because 665 would be 'bloke who lives over the road from the beast'!
Densetsu
zen
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From Slovenia
triock
Can You Face Your Fears?
triock Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2010
From Slovakia
Densetsu
zen
Densetsu Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2012
From Slovenia
Ghorpm
Zielony Brzydal
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From Poland
Densetsu
zen
Densetsu Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2012
From Slovenia
Ghorpm
Zielony Brzydal
Ghorpm Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jan 2012
From Poland
Posted August 18, 2013