It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
toxicTom: In my experience geeky people can get into rather heated discussions about their geekdom (like... DS9 vs B5) among each other, but they usually don't take part in the hate mongering of who offended whom. Could be because geeks are often enough target of ridicule and malice themselves - they learn to shrug it off. Most of them probably want to be left alone with their obsessions.
avatar
dtgreene: There's a difference here.

In the case of geek-type arguments, they are arguing about something that isn't likely to affect their everyday lives; it doesn't *really* matter if your side loses the debate (whatever that means). You see a similar phenomenon among sports fans; if your team loses, it's not going to kill you, make you homeless, or otherwise affect you in any serious way.

When it comes to issues of identity and civil rights (and the #WontBeErased hashtag is about such things), then the issue becomes much more serious. If the wrong side wins the "debate" here, and gets their views enshrined in public policy, the results can result in things like homelessness or even death. Since you're from Germany, I would assume you are aware of what happened in the 1930s and 1940s as a result of such hatred of minorities; in case you, for some reason, haven't heard of this, about 17 million people (according to Wikipedia) were murdered as a result. When the consequences are dire, one can't just shrug things off like this.

So, yes, there is a huge difference.
It's profoundly ignorant and disgusting that you think it's OK to say that to a German. Of course he understands this, it isn't a matter of choice. Palestinians understand it, too; but you, on the other hand, are a self-centered buffoon that feels sorry for yourself.

Go live in Gaza for a year and then we'll sit down and discuss the universality of human suffering, and maybe -- just maybe -- you'll have something meaningful to say.
avatar
LootHunter: No, you are incorrect. Discrimination exists. Just most people who are discriminated are not the ones modern media claims to be in need of protection.
Right, those poor white cishet men.
avatar
TARFU: My Spidey senses are tingling! This thread is going to be locked soon, I predict.
It was inevitable really.
avatar
richlind33: It's profoundly ignorant and disgusting that you think it's OK to say that to a German. Of course he understands this, it isn't a matter of choice. Palestinians understand it, too; but you, on the other hand, are a self-centered buffoon that feels sorry for yourself.

Go live in Gaza for a year and then we'll sit down and discuss the universality of human suffering, and maybe -- just maybe -- you'll have something meaningful to say.
While you make a perfectly good point, is there any reason these battles cannot be fought simultaneously? What is the sense in ranking all of the worst aspects of the world and trying to tackle them in order?
Post edited October 31, 2018 by SirPrimalform
avatar
SirPrimalform: I absolutely support universal human rights. When a particular aspect of human rights is under attack is it not natural to focus on it?
avatar
LootHunter: Today the only aspect of human rights that is under attack is a right of free speech. And you are definitely not on the side that support this right.
<twit filter on>
avatar
richlind33: It's profoundly ignorant and disgusting that you think it's OK to say that to a German. Of course he understands this, it isn't a matter of choice. Palestinians understand it, too; but you, on the other hand, are a self-centered buffoon that feels sorry for yourself.

Go live in Gaza for a year and then we'll sit down and discuss the universality of human suffering, and maybe -- just maybe -- you'll have something meaningful to say.
Found it ironic an American speak about the suffering of Palestinian in Gaza.
avatar
LootHunter: No, you are incorrect. Discrimination exists. Just most people who are discriminated are not the ones modern media claims to be in need of protection.
avatar
SirPrimalform: Right, those poor white cishet men.
avatar
TARFU: My Spidey senses are tingling! This thread is going to be locked soon, I predict.
avatar
SirPrimalform: It was inevitable really.
avatar
richlind33: It's profoundly ignorant and disgusting that you think it's OK to say that to a German. Of course he understands this, it isn't a matter of choice. Palestinians understand it, too; but you, on the other hand, are a self-centered buffoon that feels sorry for yourself.

Go live in Gaza for a year and then we'll sit down and discuss the universality of human suffering, and maybe -- just maybe -- you'll have something meaningful to say.
avatar
SirPrimalform: While you make a perfectly good point, is there any reason these battles cannot be fought simultaneously? What is the sense in ranking all of the worst aspects of the world and trying to tackle them in order?
Prioritization!

The wonderful thing about universal human rights is, if we banded together and formally established them in this world, we would *all* benefit enormously -- even those of us who are too ignorant to appreciate it.

We're *all* human beings, and that's what matters most!
avatar
SirPrimalform: is there any reason these battles cannot be fought simultaneously?
The reason is that money (and other resources) are not made out of thin air. There are a lot of problems in the world that make people suffer and to solve them requires a lot of effort. Spending time and money on other issues means more important issues are not getting attention and resources and thus remain.
avatar
zlaywal: Found it ironic an American speak about the suffering of Palestinian in Gaza.
Why?
Post edited October 31, 2018 by LootHunter
avatar
richlind33: It's profoundly ignorant and disgusting that you think it's OK to say that to a German. Of course he understands this, it isn't a matter of choice. Palestinians understand it, too; but you, on the other hand, are a self-centered buffoon that feels sorry for yourself.

Go live in Gaza for a year and then we'll sit down and discuss the universality of human suffering, and maybe -- just maybe -- you'll have something meaningful to say.
avatar
zlaywal: Found it ironic an American speak about the suffering of Palestinian in Gaza.
Unusual, but not ironic.
avatar
richlind33: Prioritization!

The wonderful thing about universal human rights is, if we banded together and formally established them in this world, we would *all* benefit enormously -- even those of us who are too ignorant to appreciate it.

We're *all* human beings, and that's what matters most!
Again, I agree with you in principle but I see no reason to focus on a single issue at a time. Besides, you make it sound easy. How would you propose getting North Korea (for example) to agree to universal human rights?
avatar
LootHunter: The reason is that money (and other resources) are not made out of thin air. There are a lot of problems in the world that make people suffer and to solve them requires a lot of effort. Spending time and money on other issues means more important issues are not getting attention and resources and thus remain.
A moment ago you were arguing that trans people were not a group who are discriminated against, now you're arguing that it's just not a worthy enough cause. Which is it?
Post edited October 31, 2018 by SirPrimalform
avatar
SirPrimalform: Again, I agree with you in principle but I see no reason to focus on a single issue at a time. Besides, you make it sound easy. How would you propose getting North Korea (for example) to agree to universal human rights?
No one said that it is easy. In fact it is hard. And that's the whole point - if you don't even know how to solve some problem, you shouldn't act erratically in a hope to solving it by chance. Instead you should try to fix something you know how to fix.
avatar
richlind33: Prioritization!

The wonderful thing about universal human rights is, if we banded together and formally established them in this world, we would *all* benefit enormously -- even those of us who are too ignorant to appreciate it.

We're *all* human beings, and that's what matters most!
avatar
SirPrimalform: Again, I agree with you in principle but I see no reason to focus on a single issue at a time. Besides, you make it sound easy. How would you propose getting North Korea (for example) to agree to universal human rights?
Universal human rights encompasses *all* of the rights that human beings need to live, prosper, and be happy; issue and identity politics, on the other hand, do not.

Where is the benefit in dealing with rights in a piecemeal fashion?

As for North Korea, the first thing that needs to be addressed is the UN Security Council, starting with the elimination of permanent membership and veto power, which would allow for international law to become a positive force in our world.
Post edited October 31, 2018 by richlind33
avatar
SirPrimalform: now you're arguing that it's just not a worthy enough cause.
I wasn't talking about transgender rights now.
avatar
LootHunter: No one said that it is easy. In fact it is hard. And that's the whole point - if you don't even know how to solve some problem, you shouldn't act erratically in a hope to solving it by chance. Instead you should try to fix something you know how to fix.
Exactly. There is no "universal human rights" switch. Every issue has to be fought separately in every country.
avatar
richlind33: Universal human rights encompasses *all* of the rights that human beings need to live, prosper, and be happy; issue and identity politics, on the other hand, do not.

Where is the benefit in dealing with rights in a piecemeal fashion?
It's the only way to do it. A single magic universal human rights switch does not exist, all issues must be fought separately. I don't argue trans rights are more important than any other issue, it's just what the thread happens to be about.


avatar
LootHunter: I wasn't talking about transgender rights now.
When I said "is there any reason these battles cannot be fought simultaneously?" I thought it was pretty clear one of the battles was trans rights. I'm not sure why you bothered to give the reply you did if you don't think it's a real issue.
Post edited October 31, 2018 by SirPrimalform
avatar
LootHunter: No one said that it is easy. In fact it is hard. And that's the whole point - if you don't even know how to solve some problem, you shouldn't act erratically in a hope to solving it by chance. Instead you should try to fix something you know how to fix.
avatar
SirPrimalform: Exactly. There is no "universal human rights" switch. Every issue has to be fought separately in every country.
avatar
richlind33: Universal human rights encompasses *all* of the rights that human beings need to live, prosper, and be happy; issue and identity politics, on the other hand, do not.

Where is the benefit in dealing with rights in a piecemeal fashion?
avatar
SirPrimalform: It's the only way to do it. A single magic universal human rights switch does not exist, all issues must be fought separately. I don't argue trans rights are more important than any other issue, it's just what the thread happens to be about.
That makes no sense at all because issue and identity politics are inherently divisive and polarizing. The Universal Declaration Of Human Rights *does* exist. All that is lacking is it's ratification, and bringing international law into line with it. So no, it doesn't have to be done piecemeal.
avatar
SirPrimalform: By this statement am I correct in thinking that you don't think discrimination exists any more then?

Or I guess maybe you don't think it's a human right not to be discriminated against?
Of course discrimination exists. You appear to be under the confusing impression that discrimination is an inherently bad thing.

Discrimination is--like violence, sex, drugs, sugar, and water, for example--not inherently bad. There are circumstances in which discrimination is improper, but it is otherwise something that every person does every day of necessity.

Do you think it is wrong that you discriminate against people when choosing whom to allow in your home? Do you think it is wrong that you discriminate against one brand of coffee or tea in favor of another?

Do you think it is wrong that you discriminate against people when choosing a date? Do you think it is wrong that one discriminates against fat women or bald men? However unfortunate it may be, it's reality and it's every person's right to be discriminating.

Do you think that anyone but you has any right whatsoever to interfere in your choice of whom to hire into your business with your own money? I would love to know who has the right to spend a person's money but that person himself. The choice of a hire is a decision that has potentially negative consequences, as does every business-related decision. If the choice is wrong, it is the owner who suffers, and not the tyrant who interfered in someone else's business. The tyrant loses nothing if the decision is wrong. But the sad, terrifyingly inhumane history of communism is readily available. Unfortunately, Reality Denial is a potent force.

I would also add that no one, except a leftist apparently, has the ability to read a person's mind and discover exactly why he did or did not hire an individual. It's that kind of awesome power that gives leftists the right to interfere in every aspect of private life. That kind of power must be respected.
avatar
richlind33: That makes no sense at all because issue and identity politics are inherently divisive and polarizing. The Universal Declaration Of Human Rights *does* exist. All that is lacking is it's ratification, and bringing international law into line with it. So no, it doesn't have to be done piecemeal.
I know it exists, but good luck getting it universally adopted.
avatar
Dryspace: Of course discrimination exists. You appear to be under the confusing impression that discrimination is an inherently bad thing.

Discrimination is--like violence, sex, drugs, sugar, and water, for example--not inherently bad. There are circumstances in which discrimination is improper, but it is otherwise something that every person does every day of necessity.

Do you think it is wrong that you discriminate against people when choosing whom to allow in your home? Do you think it is wrong that you discriminate against one brand of coffee or tea in favor of another?

Do you think it is wrong that you discriminate against people when choosing a date? Do you think it is wrong that one discriminates against fat women or bald men? However unfortunate it may be, it's reality and it's every person's right to be discriminating.

Do you think that anyone but you has any right whatsoever to interfere in your choice of whom to hire into your business with your own money? I would love to know who has the right to spend a person's money but that person himself. The choice of a hire is a decision that has potentially negative consequences, as does every business-related decision. If the choice is wrong, it is the owner who suffers, and not the tyrant who interfered in someone else's business. The tyrant loses nothing if the decision is wrong. But the sad, terrifyingly inhumane history of communism is readily available. Unfortunately, Reality Denial is a potent force.

I would also add that no one, except a leftist apparently, has the ability to read a person's mind and discover exactly why he did or did not hire an individual. It's that kind of awesome power that gives leftists the right to interfere in every aspect of private life. That kind of power must be respected.
Hah, wow.
Post edited October 31, 2018 by SirPrimalform