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Tarm: What's new about that?
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catpower1980: It's "new" for Germans that they start to admit that Greek people are not lazy bastards living of "free" EU money ;)
Well I honestly don't know if Greeks are lazier than most other people so I won't comment on that.

I give you that the information where the financial aid to Greece went is not something being highlighted by media. At least not here. That information you have to go look for yourself mostly.
Never forget that the only one the EU works for is The Market. Business, finance, exports/imports, trade whatever you want to call it.
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Tarm: Never forget that the only one the EU works for is The Market. Business, finance, exports/imports, trade whatever you want to call it.
If only, then the UK would be united in staying in it. The EU works for itself, it's become a self sustaining bureaucracy, it's no longer motivated towards anything other than making sure it is involved in everything it can be.
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XYCat: I don't see any problem in Romanian working together with the German unless you try really hard to invent the unbreakable obstacle according to which a common goal for people of different countries is completely impossible because of them being from different countries.
So you might want to meditate on how isolationism benefits anyone, especially if that particular isolationist doesn't want to be anyone's dog.
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catpower1980: You're a funny guy: Where did I promote isolationism? Where did I say people can't work together? You have the same kind of rethoric as the eurocrats: confusing the presence of borders and local politics with isolationism, like you're forgetting centuries of international trades.

It's even more funny because your just reminded me of the sad story of European producers who couldn't export their products to Russia anymore because of the EU sanctions in response to the Ukraine crisis.

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Tarm: What's new about that?
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catpower1980: It's "new" for Germans that they start to admit that Greek people are not lazy bastards living of "free" EU money ;)
Well you were the one that went on about some mythical "common point" or whatnot that supposedly prevents cooperation between countries like Romania and Germany and prevents proper functioning of international institutions which are therefore very evil and should be completely erased so that every little country wouldn't have to suffer any harassment from anyone, just like the top noone's dawg - Ukraine.

I am mainly not forgetting centuries of rather large international monarchies that covered up most of the european continent. None of the local customs were lost, none of the languages were lost and surprisingly people in such large international states were kinda on the same boat no matter in which part of the country they were born.
Which reminds me of a sad story of how people started making up mostly fictional borders, fictional words in their langauges in some cases, fictional ethnic problems, fictional national myths and histories and eventually made up a completely artificial concept of national states.
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Tarm: Never forget that the only one the EU works for is The Market. Business, finance, exports/imports, trade whatever you want to call it.
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wpegg: If only, then the UK would be united in staying in it. The EU works for itself, it's become a self sustaining bureaucracy, it's no longer motivated towards anything other than making sure it is involved in everything it can be.
That's certainly the trend though I wouldn't say we're there yet. That's what tends to happen if a organisation not firmly grounded in the public gets enough power.
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Tarm: Never forget that the only one the EU works for is The Market. Business, finance, exports/imports, trade whatever you want to call it.
A good reminder is that they just stopped printingthe 500 euros bills this week and I canbet you that if Euro still exists in 5 years, the 200€ bill will disappear too and they could even dare to supress the 100€ one because "virtual" money is the way to go.... I'm going to steal some copper cables: that's one thing those greedy banks won't have :o)

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XYCat: Which reminds me of a sad story of how people started making up mostly fictional borders, fictional words in their langauges in some cases, fictional ethnic problems, fictional national myths and histories and eventually made up a completely artificial concept of national states.
My end response because we're going full circle and I like to say it in real life: "We live on the same planet but not in the same world'
Post edited May 06, 2016 by catpower1980
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Tarm: Never forget that the only one the EU works for is The Market. Business, finance, exports/imports, trade whatever you want to call it.
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catpower1980: A good reminder is that they just stopped printingthe 500 euros bills this week and I canbet you that if Euro still exists in 5 years, the 200€ bill will disappear too and they could even dare to supress the 100€ one because "virtual" money is the way to go.... I'm going to steal some copper cables: that's one thing those greedy banks won't have :o)
Too few people that can afford to carry around that sum in cash to make it viable I suppose. ;)

They've been saying Sweden will soon be the first country without any cash for years. I still don't see that happening anytime soon. It would be a huge security risk for any country to name just one reason.
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Tarm: They've been saying Sweden will soon be the first country without any cash for years. I still don't see that happening anytime soon. It would be a huge security risk for any country to name just one reason.
It could come sooner than expected with the generalization of smartphone-app payments for micro-transactions or with the RFID, technology is growing fast. My main concern wouldn't be security as the current systems are already full of loopholes but the biggest threat is that with the generalization of virtual money in everyday life, you're likely to get hugely screwed when shit happens to the banks like in Cyprus and Greece. Money on bank account is not yours and lots of people tend to forget that.

Also, it raises the concern of the ties between the political world and the bank system. In a fictionalized world where paper money wouldn't exist, being some sort of outcast for whatever reasons would lead to some severe prejudices as you wouldn't be able to buy anything unless some sort of commodity exchange system exists. I guess North Korea would love to be the first country to have 100% virtual money :o)
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Tarm: They've been saying Sweden will soon be the first country without any cash for years. I still don't see that happening anytime soon. It would be a huge security risk for any country to name just one reason.
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catpower1980: It could come sooner than expected with the generalization of smartphone-app payments for micro-transactions or with the RFID, technology is growing fast. My main concern wouldn't be security as the current systems are already full of loopholes but the biggest threat is that with the generalization of virtual money in everyday life, you're likely to get hugely screwed when shit happens to the banks like in Cyprus and Greece. Money on bank account is not yours and lots of people tend to forget that.

Also, it raises the concern of the ties between the political world and the bank system. In a fictionalized world where paper money wouldn't exist, being some sort of outcast for whatever reasons would lead to some severe prejudices as you wouldn't be able to buy anything unless some sort of commodity exchange system exists. I guess North Korea would love to be the first country to have 100% virtual money :o)
It's cash as backup. No sovereign country would dare risk their whole economy being made non existent just by some electronic sabotage.
As it is now yes countries can be severely hurt by electronic sabotage BUT there is always cash as a backup to keep their society functioning.
It would be insane for sovereign states to even think about getting rid of cash altogether.

In a world without cash the barter system will be king.
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catpower1980: A good reminder is that they just stopped printingthe 500 euros bills this week and I canbet you that if Euro still exists in 5 years, the 200€ bill will disappear too and they could even dare to supress the 100€ one because "virtual" money is the way to go.... I'm going to steal some copper cables: that's one thing those greedy banks won't have :o)
They stopped printing the 500 euro note because it was not something anyone carried around in their wallet, and was just something people used for laundering large amounts of money. It's nothing to do with business, or the desire to move us to other notes / currencies.

There are suggestions from some people that this was a bad idea as the EU was making a fair bit of cash from it, but I have to favour the moral vote on this one. There was no need for a 500 euro note.
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catpower1980: A good reminder is that they just stopped printingthe 500 euros bills this week and I canbet you that if Euro still exists in 5 years, the 200€ bill will disappear too and they could even dare to supress the 100€ one because "virtual" money is the way to go.... I'm going to steal some copper cables: that's one thing those greedy banks won't have :o)
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wpegg: They stopped printing the 500 euro note because it was not something anyone carried around in their wallet, and was just something people used for laundering large amounts of money. It's nothing to do with business, or the desire to move us to other notes / currencies.

There are suggestions from some people that this was a bad idea as the EU was making a fair bit of cash from it, but I have to favour the moral vote on this one. There was no need for a 500 euro note.
I would have considered the "moral" point of view valid if it weren't for a global tendency over the years to go "the cashless way": promoting mobile and internet payments, reducing the number of ATM's, reducing the amount you can withdraw per "period" and per withdrawal, reducing the variety of bills and so on in order to keep your money on an account which can subjected to negative interest rates (actually, with the fees and the 0% rate, we are near that point).

Some cashless articles:
Former US Treasury Secretary wants to kill the 100$ bill (geez, I guess the 100€ bill is next):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/16/its-time-to-kill-the-100-bill/
Denmark, Sweden and Norway go hand-in-hands:
http://paymentweek.com/2015-12-23-denmark-pushes-forward-with-cashless-payments-9215/
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/27/business/international/in-sweden-a-cash-free-future-nears.html?_r=1
http://www.ibtimes.com/norways-biggest-bank-calls-country-stop-using-cash-2276140

A pro-cash article:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-11/here-real-reason-why-authorities-want-ban-high-denomination-bank-notes

And a bit of personal poetry because it's nearly midnight and i wanna sleep ^o^

[i]"First they came for the 500€ bill, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a criminal.

Then they came for the 200€ bill, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not an entrepreneur.

Then they came for the 100€ bill, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not rich.

Then they came for my purse — and there was no cash left in it."[/i]

Well, time to go to bed I think #TeamConspiracy2016 :FEAR: :o))))
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Tarm: Never forget that the only one the EU works for is The Market. Business, finance, exports/imports, trade whatever you want to call it.
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catpower1980: A good reminder is that they just stopped printingthe 500 euros bills this week and I canbet you that if Euro still exists in 5 years, the 200€ bill will disappear too and they could even dare to supress the 100€ one because "virtual" money is the way to go.... I'm going to steal some copper cables: that's one thing those greedy banks won't have :o)

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XYCat: Which reminds me of a sad story of how people started making up mostly fictional borders, fictional words in their langauges in some cases, fictional ethnic problems, fictional national myths and histories and eventually made up a completely artificial concept of national states.
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catpower1980: My end response because we're going full circle and I like to say it in real life: "We live on the same planet but not in the same world'
Well anyway, I might have sounded a bit too harsh or rude and if I managed to offend you in the end then I sincerely apologize, it definitely was not my intention.
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XYCat: Well anyway, I might have sounded a bit too harsh or rude and if I managed to offend you in the end then I sincerely apologize, it definitely was not my intention.
No offense taken at all, you'll really have to piss me off personally to get me angry and as I post on these forums in a very casual way, you'll have to try much harder than that ;o)
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: Hmm, another reason then that Brexit is actually to the BEST INTERESTS of British people, as well as other europeans, too... Should EU start falling apart, or countries forming it seek out a better ethnical composition and ruling of themselves FOR THEMSELVES thereoff, no american w@nk like this TTIP is likely to hit us all together, at least at the same time and magnitude...

The ONLY thing muslims got right, is that America is evil. Well, not the continent itself, really, just the world-bankers residing there, the corporations, the warmongering military... And Monsanto. And companies like it.
Deus EX got into that conclusion and it's team of development way before the muslims, or Orwell....

Man, I wish it WAS 1989..this would just be prophetic then