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General discussionThe Banner Saga 2 is coming april 19th.(232 posts)(232 posts)
(232 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 28, 2016
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Klumpen0815: To me it looks like they don't want to acknowledge, that there is an issue at all.
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de_Monteynard: I cannot help you on the contact front, but you should check Stoic's responses I previously posted. They make it quite clear that they do not intend to acknowledge this as a serious issue and wish to avoid even a semi-public discussion on this.
I hope that they're DRMed version gets pirated to hell and back so that they rethink their bullshit argument.
Not releasing on GoG means lost sales instead they seem to think that only releasing on Steam means more sales as if no Steam game has been pirated ever, haha. Seriously, how far away are they removed from reality?
I'm disappointed, because I really like the game and it looks like I may not be able to play Banner Saga 2 like I still wasn't able to play Fallout: New Vegas because I actually buy my games although only DRM free.
They haven't responded to the lack of the Linux port on GoG at all?
Post edited March 28, 2016 by Klumpen0815
Posted March 28, 2016
Stoic is kind of an ironic name for this kind of double talking deception.
Posted March 28, 2016
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GR00T: I find their statement odd about the game being pirated. It implies it was pirated before the GOG release. And since it's a digital item, once there is one pirated copy available, then it's out there and available to anyone that wants it. If it was already pirated before the GOG release, then it was already available to the pirates. To then note that the DRM-free GOG release induced a spike in pirated copies would only seem to indicate that the game came to the attention of pirates again and they decided to grab it at that time.

So I wonder: do they really think they'd have sold all those post-GOG pirated copies if they'd decided not to release on GOG at all?
I doubt that's what they meant/think, if they do then they really don't understand piracy and sales, which would make them look rather silly as some of them are a long time in the industry. IMHO, it's just an excuse to not bother with a DRM-free release. As I said, they weren't keane to do one when they run their Kickstarter campaign, and only added it when they realised that a good number of people wouldn't pledge otherwise.

Reading the exchanges they had with their backers (cheers, de_Monteynard), how they now try to say that they made no commitments regarding Ep 2 & 3 when they clearly made them part of the campaign to entice people to up their pledges, and how they try to keep this as hash-hash as possible, just reinforce the doubts I had back then; glad they kept me from backing them.
Posted March 28, 2016
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HypersomniacLive: Reading the exchanges they had with their backers (cheers, de_Monteynard), how they now try to say that they made no commitments regarding Ep 2 & 3 when they clearly made them part of the campaign to entice people to up their pledges, and how they try to keep this as hash-hash as possible, just reinforce the doubts I had back then; glad they kept me from backing them.
Spot on. I decided not to back this one and just wait to see what the game was like. I loved the game though, and was ready to grab the new installments as they appeared. But seeing the way they're handling this, it's looking like I'll not bother with the game(s) at all.
Posted March 28, 2016
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GR00T: Spot on. I decided not to back this one and just wait to see what the game was like. I loved the game though, and was ready to grab the new installments as they appeared. But seeing the way they're handling this, it's looking like I'll not bother with the game(s) at all.
I don't use Steam, so any games exclusive to it are non-existent for me. If they ever change(d) their mind, I don't think I'd consider the rest of the instalments at release after all this.
Sadly, they don't seem to understand, more likely don't care about, all the consequences and side-effects their ways cause on their sales.
Funny how devs/pubs seem to not care about lost sales due to Steam exclusivity, yet argue pirated copies = lost sales.
Posted March 28, 2016
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HypersomniacLive: Funny how devs/pubs seem to not care about lost sales due to Steam exclusivity, yet argue pirated copies = lost sales.
I wonder what it takes to make them understand, that Steam exclusivity means lost sales indeed.
They don't even want to hear about it.
Posted March 29, 2016
New Backer Update about the Beta and I reposted my last comment in the one to see what would happen.

Here is my post:

Since you have decided to ignore my last comment in the previous update, I have decided to repost it here.

Concerning your decision to release E2&3 only on Steam, my reaction (and that of others) is not one of being upset, but only of wanting what we paid for. As I said before, at no point did you say that the conditions that applied to E1 will not apply to E2 and E3. The way you presented the whole deal was that we would get all three Episodes of The Banner Saga under the same conditions, no ifs or buts.

Furthermore, if you look at the Kicktraq data, you will see that around the time you published Update #4, you had a massive jump in the amount of $ pledged, while the number of new backers during that same time period was low. If you compare that to the final few days of the campaign, where you had a large influx of funds together with a large number of new backers, you can clearly see that it was your promise of E2 and E3 that brought in a lot of additional funding.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga/#chart-daily

Consequently, what you are/were engaging in is misleading advertising, and while US legislation is not known for its strong consumer protection, EU legislation (where I reside) is.

As such, I will ask you again and I wish to see a public answer (no hiding behind PMs): Will you or will you not refund the difference between what was advertised ($50 for all three episodes DRM-free) and what we received (only E1 DRM-free)?

This is their reply:

First off, we're busy trying to get Banner Saga 2 in the best shape as it can be which means we're focused on the people who are helping us and willing to help us make it better by playing in this beta.

Secondly, @MDM - we're not ignoring you nor Celine, but we have told you how we feel and what we think. Sadly, all we can tell you right now is that DRM-Free is not being planned. It's clear you're mind is made up and we encourage you to either contact us directly or contact KickStarter if you feel like we didn't meet our Kickstarter Requirements. We're not trying to hide behing any PMs we're just not sure the comments on a thread about our beta is the best place to explain all of this to you.

---

It would seem that it would take a massive campaign to get them to change their mind and most people, as usual, don't mind getting screwed over by companies (as shown by massive purchases of recent AAA releases, the Division being the latest example) or just aren't interested in the DRM-free cause.

As such, I am forced to accept the loss and move on, as neither they, nor Kickstarter would be willing to refund anything. (Un)fortunately this will just fuel decreasing public support for crowdfunding, which is a shame, as gaming especially has experienced a true Renaissance thanks to new and innovative ideas being funded by gamers.

All that remains is to continue the good fight via GOG.
Post edited March 29, 2016 by de_Monteynard
Posted March 29, 2016
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de_Monteynard: I am forced to accept the loss and move on, as neither they, nor Kickstarter would be willing to refund anything.
Thank you for the information, now I know to avoid all Stoic products in the future.
Posted March 29, 2016
WOW, this right here:

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de_Monteynard: This is their reply:

First off, we're busy trying to get Banner Saga 2 in the best shape as it can be which means we're focused on the people who are helping us and willing to help us make it better by playing in this beta.
...is nothing less than a massive Please Fuck Off. I'll be avoiding anything these asshats develop in the future. What a colossal shame they can't see beyond the end of their noses.
Post edited March 29, 2016 by GR00T
Posted March 29, 2016
I understand Stoic needs to protect his game, but obviously DRM there isn't a solution for that problem. I can bet 24 hours after release (if not 24 hours before) there'll be a ''pirated drm - free'' build. It is sad, first because they wouldn't get anything putting DRM on his game and second because piracy legend is growing up again.

I was waiting Episode 2 and I was thinking buying it day one, with OST if It will be possible, thinking it will be here. Sadly, Stoic's words doesn't show any interest in a legal DRM - Free build. Fortunately, there will be a lot of good games coming here, without DRM. Without prejudices.
Post edited April 01, 2016 by menganogog
Posted March 29, 2016
I have finished my first playthrough of "The Banner Saga" today and it was very good, so this is really sad.

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de_Monteynard: This is their reply:

First off, we're busy trying to get Banner Saga 2 in the best shape as it can be which means we're focused on the people who are helping us and willing to help us make it better by playing in this beta.
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GR00T: ...is nothing less than a massive Please Fuck Off. I'll be avoiding anything these asshats develop in the future. What a colossal shame they can't see beyond the end of their noses.
That's exactly how I understood it.

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menganogog: I understand Stoic needs to protect his game, but obiously DRM there isn't a solution for that problem. I can bet 24 hours after release (if not 24 hours before) there'll be a ''pirated drm - free'' build. It is sad, first because they wouldn't get anything putting DRM on his game and second because piracy legend is growing up again.
Imho this way they'll at least see, that GoG isn't the reason for piracy like they seem to put it (which is quite insulting to be honest). I have no idea about torrent sites since I haven't been on any of those since I became a customer here, are there still all those DRMed Steam games on day 1?

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menganogog: Fortunately, there will be a lot of good games coming here, without DRM. Without prejudices.
+1
Posted March 29, 2016
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Klumpen0815: I have finished my first playthrough of "The Banner Saga" today and it was very good, so this is really sad.

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GR00T: ...is nothing less than a massive Please Fuck Off. I'll be avoiding anything these asshats develop in the future. What a colossal shame they can't see beyond the end of their noses.
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Klumpen0815: That's exactly how I understood it.

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menganogog: I understand Stoic needs to protect his game, but obiously DRM there isn't a solution for that problem. I can bet 24 hours after release (if not 24 hours before) there'll be a ''pirated drm - free'' build. It is sad, first because they wouldn't get anything putting DRM on his game and second because piracy legend is growing up again.
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Klumpen0815: Imho this way they'll at least see, that GoG isn't the reason for piracy like they seem to put it (which is quite insulting to be honest). I have no idea about torrent sites since I haven't been on any of those since I became a customer here, are there still all those DRMed Steam games on day 1?

Like you, I'm not friend of illegal DRMed games, but I know they exist. Well, maybe i've exaggerated saying 24 hours before launch, but piracy is a fact. Maybe one or two days later or a month with some harder DRMs, but soon or later the game will be ''free'' on the internet. Most times before developers have payed off the production.
IMHO with this policies maybe Stoic get to control piracy problem, but I'm sure only for a short time. However, I've for sure they'll lose a great amount of loyal users, overall those how love legal DRM - Free and a pleasant treatment by developers.

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menganogog: Fortunately, there will be a lot of good games coming here, without DRM. Without prejudices.
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Klumpen0815: +1
Posted March 29, 2016
Attending to their words ''All we can say for now is that the DRM-Free version is not being planned'' we can think they will plan to launch the game DRM - Free on GOG not now, but in time... maybe when they'll pay off the production money.

In any case, if the game will be launch here sometime later they've treated us like secondary customers... Anyway I'd like to know how many copies The Banner Saga Ep1 sold on GOG. I can't believe they've been so few as not try to sell Ep2.
Posted March 29, 2016
Considering some publishers have some issues keeping their GOG versions up to date... do people really want reluctant publishers to GOG? How probable it would be it also would lag seriously behind in patch levels?

I personally would be fine they release it in GOG much much later, when it isn't receiving much of updates anymore. Then again I know some people want to buy it ASAP.
Posted March 29, 2016
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timppu: I personally would be fine they release it in GOG much much later, when it isn't receiving much of updates anymore. Then again I know some people want to buy it ASAP.
I'd be fine with that as well. Interestingly though, I was ready to jump on Episode 2 and 3 the moment they appeared on GOG. Now, if I even bother at all (assuming they do eventually appear here) it will be when they're heavily discounted during one of GOG's big sales. This whole thing has left enough of a sour taste in my mouth that It's highly unlikely I'll purchase Stoic games in the future. Certainly not at full price, anyway.
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General discussionThe Banner Saga 2 is coming april 19th.(232 posts)(232 posts)
(232 posts)