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General discussionOffline installers with an option to install GOG Galaxy(1687 posts)(1687 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 06, 2017
low rated
Thanks for bearing with us in this thread. We’d like to announce that today we’ve introduced the addition of new installers, with implemented GOG Galaxy client.

Like Destro described it back in May, we decided to separate the „new" and „classic” installers, for your choice. So if you don’t care about the features like achievements or cloud-saves and don’t want to use GOG Galaxy, you can download the „Classic Game Installer", just like it was handled before. For games that have new installers, the default download view on „My account” will show the "GOG Galaxy Game Installers" - you will notice that, as it is visibly described in „My account” game view. To download the „classic” ones, just go to „Options" and choose „Classic Installers”.

The new GOG Galaxy Game Installers were added to +100 games - a selection of all games that make use of GOG Galaxy features. I'll post the current list of games with the new installers in a separate post.
Going forward, all new games that will use GOG Galaxy features, will now receive both GOG Galaxy Game Installer and Classic Game Installer.

Introduction of GOG Galaxy Game Installers doesn’t change anything in terms of keeping the Classic Game Installers up to date. As soon as we receive an update for any game, we will prepare an updated version of the classic installer, just like it was done in the past.

Edit: Pinned.
Post edited July 06, 2017 by fables22
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
So there are going the be the standard installers with Galaxy, up-to-date and everything and the classic installers will be like that special DRM-free edition of Armello, right?
Posted May 12, 2017
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Destro: 1. We clearly noticed - yes, we did - that many of you prefer the old installers (let’s call them “classic”) and prefer to manage their growing libraries manually. Therefore, once we roll out “new” installers with the option to install GOG Galaxy, we will add a separate download of the “classic” ones. Going forward we will offer the option to download “classic” installers whenever a game is offered via a “new” installer.
I am relieved to see that GOG is listening to our feedback after all. I guess this is going to be like with the downloader links? So the standard frontpage download is the one contaminated with Galaxy, and the clean, "classic" installers are in a separate directory? I can live with that. At least I still get clean installers that are not bloated and do not try to trick me into installing something. So I'll stay after all.


But even so I really urge you not to make that checkbox checked by default. These 'install extra stuff' checkboxes that are on by default have a very bad reputation because they are used all the time by sneaky 'freeware' distributors. I don't think it is good for GOG to associate itself with that kind of business tactic.
Posted May 12, 2017
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Destro: Yes, there are things which we can do better - there always are. Reading your feedback and giving it a second thought, we decided on the following:
1. We clearly noticed - yes, we did - that many of you prefer the old installers (let’s call them “classic”) and prefer to manage their growing libraries manually. Therefore, once we roll out “new” installers with the option to install GOG Galaxy, we will add a separate download of the “classic” ones. Going forward we will offer the option to download “classic” installers whenever a game is offered via a “new” installer.
2. As mentioned earlier, we will work on making the GOG Galaxy installer smaller, but at the cost of it being online only.
3. We will launch the new installers in a couple of weeks once point 1 is ready. Point 2 might take a bit longer, but with the “classic” installer option available, this should not affect anyone.
So you want to maintain all of this below:
1. GOG Galaxy itself
2. Update new version of Galaxy-free offline installers
3. Update new version of GOG Galaxy in hundreds of offline installers for various games
4. Galaxy-only update for various games

Drop Galaxy-infested installers will make the work MUCH MUCH more easier.
Posted May 12, 2017
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timppu: So, how can one automatically differentiate between the Galaxy and classic versions, without having to download both of them?
Well that will be the responsibility of gogrepo and lgogdownloader maintainers to update their tools accordingly and it's a question you should aks them once the new installers are released; it's not Gog responsibility what third party tools can and cannot do.

But from a technical point of view, as long as there is a difference on the page between the "normal" and the "classic" installers then tools like that should be able to differentiate the downloads even if it means parsing the HTML page.
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
@Destro thanks for the update. I still have concerns though, and think things could be handled much better by GOG.

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Destro: 1. We clearly noticed - yes, we did - that many of you prefer the old installers (let’s call them “classic”) and prefer to manage their growing libraries manually. Therefore, once we roll out “new” installers with the option to install GOG Galaxy, we will add a separate download of the “classic” ones. Going forward we will offer the option to download “classic” installers whenever a game is offered via a “new” installer.
2. As mentioned earlier, we will work on making the GOG Galaxy installer smaller, but at the cost of it being online only.
3. We will launch the new installers in a couple of weeks once point 1 is ready. Point 2 might take a bit longer, but with the “classic” installer option available, this should not affect anyone.
What happens with the "classic" installers when an update is released? Do they just remain at the obsolete version?
What happens with new releases? Will they be provided only in "New Coke" form?
This solution of having two different installers could lead to more confusion.
This solution also means a *lot* more work for GOG, having to maintain two sets of installers for many games, changing the website and Galaxy client to support them etc.

Here's what I propose. Rather than changing the standalone installers, make the following site changes:

1- When someone signs up for an account, add a "What now?" section offering a download link for Galaxy & illustrating how to use it. Also mention the offline installers, and the difference between them. Mention the free games that are automatically added to new accounts & suggest that the user try them out to see how things work. Send a "welcome" email to the new user with this info as well.

2- When someone makes a purchase, add a "What now?" section offering a download link for Galaxy & illustrating how to use it. Also mention the offline installers, and the difference between them.

3- When accessing the library on the website for the first time, introduce a pop-up reminder about Galaxy that needs to be dismissed before download links are offered.

4- Add to the Galaxy client a means to initiate game downloads via the browser (similar to how Steam can with steam:// links) and offer those links by default, requiring the user to specifically choose the offline installers (and make the site remember this choice so it doesn't get annoying).

5- When someone downloads "backup" installers through Galaxy, have the client check for the latest Galaxy client installer and if it isn't found, ask the user if they would like to download that as well.

If you really must make changes to the installers, add a simple pop-up to the installers explaining what Galaxy is and offering a link to the Galaxy download page, or just add an entry for it to the carousel. Only do this for newer installers & when installers are being updated for other reasons, though.

I think this would be a *lot* better than both your original idea and your proposed compromise. People are already familiar with how the likes of Steam works, and by presenting Galaxy in the way I suggest it should avoid the issues of people "missing" how to download their games, or downloading the standalone installers when they would prefer the client experience.

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Destro: One more thing to keep in mind: everyday we fight to make more great titles available to you, DRM-free. To release many of them we must support their online features, while at the same time developers request ways to automate upload and updating games. Without GOG Galaxy we couldn't offer many of the games we offer today at all, even if you don’t use GOG Galaxy to play or update them.
Hmm, so is this confirmation then that the lack of a Galaxy client for Linux *is* the reason so many major titles don't have their Linux releases here?
Post edited May 12, 2017 by adamhm
Posted May 12, 2017
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adaliabooks: Oh look, the world didn't end. Fancy that.
Except if e.g. gogrepo or lgogdownloader can't automatically differentiate between the two sets, and end up always downloading both...

I guess this suggestion is fine for those who download all their games just with a web browser.
Posted May 12, 2017
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Destro: snip
Sounds like a reasonable solution. I'm completely fine with it :) I like word "classic" a lot - otherwise I wouldn't be here ;)
Posted May 12, 2017
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DoctorGOGgles: So there are going the be the standard installers with Galaxy, up-to-date and everything and the classic installers will be like that special DRM-free edition of Armello, right?
Yeah, this is my only concern now. At least it's great that our online voices were heard and we still have the option of having the old installers but please GOG keep updating them too.
Posted May 12, 2017
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timppu: Does that mean that if you use something like gogrepo tool to automatically download all your offline installers, you end up downloading all those games twice, the Galaxy-infested and the Galaxy-free version?

How are you going to offer the classic versions, in the extras? Will they receive all the same updates as the Galaxy-installer versions?

If you go on with this, may I suggest that you somehow clearly name all the installers which have Galaxy embedded? For instance, the file name always includes the string "gog_galaxy", so that it is easier to weed out for those of us who don't want to download the same installers twice? For instance:

Dex (Galaxy version):

setup_dex_5.4.0.0_(10932)_gog_galaxy.exe
setup_dex_5.4.0.0_(10932)-1_gog_galaxy.bin

Dex (non-Galaxy version):

setup_dex_5.4.0.0_(10932).exe
setup_dex_5.4.0.0_(10932)-1.bin

Then it is easier for tools to tell which is the GOG Galaxy version of the installer, in order not to download it.

Note: I didn't suggest using a mere "galaxy" as the string, because you have a couple of games whose name includes "galaxy" already in the filename. It has to be something specific to GOG Galaxy.

Also, naming the "classic" versions as merely "_classic" in the filename isn't a good solution either as you have some other alternative versions already with the word "_classic", plus not all non-Galaxy installers will have that string either (namely those which don't have the Galaxy installer version).

As you can see, you should really plan this carefully. I am a bit surprised you are willling to keep two separate sets of installers (whether they have Galaxy embedded or not) as that is more work to you I suppose, but please understand that having two different sets can be bothersome to many of your users too, unless there is an easy way to automatically differentiate between them.
I would second this, even if it does sound a bit of a daft solution. As long as it is clearly marked that one installer is galaxy and one is not, then that works. Although as mentioned before this is obviously a stay of execution, and it will mean that any file downloaded from here cannot be trusted until proven that it doesn't contain galaxy.

So yes, this works currently, however to be perfectly honest the damage is already done, zero trust in GOG any more. Will think very carefully about putting any money this way in future - definately nothing that hasn't been released for at least a few months.
Posted May 12, 2017
My concerns have been confirmed.

so long and thanks for all the fish
P.S.
over at steam i have the Future.. NOW!
Post edited May 20, 2017 by Executer
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
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Gersen: Well that will be the responsibility of gogrepo and lgogdownloader maintainers to update their tools accordingly and it's a question you should aks them once the new installers are released; it's not Gog responsibility what third party tools can and cannot do.
Of course the tools need to accommodate to it, but GOG would still need to provide some way for the tools to tell which files are the Galaxy-embedded version, and which are the Galaxy-free versions. I suggested one form of file naming, the Galaxy versions always having e.g. _gog_galaxy in the installer file name. Then all those tools need is a way to omit any files with certain strings in the filename.

If they simply slap the string "classic" to the non-Galaxy versions and put them into extras, that still doesn't make it possible to differentiate them, as there are also other installers with the string "classic" that have nothing to do with whether they have Galaxy embedded or not, plus I presume games which don't have the Galaxy-embedded version will not have a "classic" included in the filename or description either.

I think you are just trolling suggesting the tools "should parse html pages", as in trying to figure out from the file descriptions if it is the classic or Galaxy version, especially as we don't know if there will be any common way GOG will describe it from now on.
Post edited May 12, 2017 by timppu
Posted May 12, 2017
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Gersen: Here those peoples will buy the game, download the "default" installer, install it and then be presented with the option to install Galaxy too, it will be easier for those peoples as they won't have to download Galaxy separately.
Two things-

1) users will, before downloading, choose a version of the installer to download. How will that be different from choosing between downlading the offline installer and downloading Galaxy as it was so far? It's still the exact same choice that the user has to make. There's just a third, nonsensical option of choosing to download Galaxy with an offline installer of a game.

2) as far as I've seen from new users appearing on the forum asking questions, it's never problems with the offline installers, it's people use Galaxy and don't even know the offline installers exist.
Posted May 12, 2017
Feel free to step in and answer a couple of questions,Gog.
Posted May 12, 2017
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timppu: especially as we don't know if there will be any common way GOG will describe it from now on.
Judging by the way GOG handles version numbers I guess there will be about n+1 different ways to differentiate between Galaxy and non-Galaxy builds for n games.
Posted May 12, 2017
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timppu: especially as we don't know if there will be any common way GOG will describe it from now on.
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DoctorGOGgles: Judging by the way GOG handles version numbers I guess there will be about n+1 different ways to differentiate between Galaxy and non-Galaxy builds for n games.
Unfortunately yes. For instance in some cases GOG has added some Mac, Linux or non-English versions to the extras, ie. they are not behind the specific Mac/Linux/non-English filters like normally (you see them in your download list even though you have set the filters to only English Windows versions, because they are put to the extras), and those "special cases" don't seem to necessarily have any common naming convention either, ie. there isn't necessarily a "mac" or "linux" mentioned at least in the file name.
Post edited May 12, 2017 by timppu
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionOffline installers with an option to install GOG Galaxy(1687 posts)(1687 posts)
(1687 posts)