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General discussionOffline installers with an option to install GOG Galaxy(1687 posts)(1687 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 06, 2017
low rated
Thanks for bearing with us in this thread. We’d like to announce that today we’ve introduced the addition of new installers, with implemented GOG Galaxy client.

Like Destro described it back in May, we decided to separate the „new" and „classic” installers, for your choice. So if you don’t care about the features like achievements or cloud-saves and don’t want to use GOG Galaxy, you can download the „Classic Game Installer", just like it was handled before. For games that have new installers, the default download view on „My account” will show the "GOG Galaxy Game Installers" - you will notice that, as it is visibly described in „My account” game view. To download the „classic” ones, just go to „Options" and choose „Classic Installers”.

The new GOG Galaxy Game Installers were added to +100 games - a selection of all games that make use of GOG Galaxy features. I'll post the current list of games with the new installers in a separate post.
Going forward, all new games that will use GOG Galaxy features, will now receive both GOG Galaxy Game Installer and Classic Game Installer.

Introduction of GOG Galaxy Game Installers doesn’t change anything in terms of keeping the Classic Game Installers up to date. As soon as we receive an update for any game, we will prepare an updated version of the classic installer, just like it was done in the past.

Edit: Pinned.
Post edited July 06, 2017 by fables22
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
Still in full condescension mode, eh?
Still ignoring how even the Galaxy fans here clearly say that this is utter nonsense and extremely dishonest.

For the last time:
People downloading the offline installers already decided against Galaxy since everyone else clicked one of the many surplus Galaxy advertisements instead of downloading individual game files himself.
We do not want Galaxy and we do not care how much effort has been put into it. For us it was a waste of resources since we're here for a client-free experience!
We don't stand in the way of the client fans so stop bothering us with it in such extreme ways!
Post edited May 10, 2017 by Klumpen0815
Posted May 10, 2017
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johnnygoging: Snip
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MrFortyFive: That's an interesting thought. As you mentioned, it does bring up that DRM slippery slope, but I think it could be a perfectly valid reason to test the waters of integrating some aspects of Galaxy into the installers. If that is in fact part of their reasoning and they had communicated it as such, I think this could have been a more positive or constructive discussion.
I'll go much further and say that I think it would have boosted their cred significantly.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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johnnygoging: the problem is, what's the alternative? the installers need to work offline. therefore they have to test cert and package some kind of ship version of galaxy in the installers otherwise Galaxy can't work in an environment with no internet connection. they're not idiots, they saw this too. you could have it that they just include some kind of net installer in the gameball that would take like a megabyte or so but then that would fail with no internet. so for somebody who throws a gog game on their laptop and then installs it without internet, they don't know where the Galaxy is. it's not ideal from the standpoint of deploying the client successfully from a purely technical standpoint. I get that that's reaching though. I don't see why they wouldn't install the gameball at download time. I get that's... yeah. I get that.

here's the thing though. if they are working on this piece of software, Galaxy, to manage and manipulate their game library and deployment of their licensed content and user facing environment, all this stuff right, then they are building everything around it. everything. it may be, that, in the future, or right now, Galaxy is responsible for handling configurations, data, crypto, all this stuff. it could be that the future versions of the gameballs will require Galaxy in order to deploy.

it's like right now, it's innosetup, and that blows up everything and it works. as they bring in multiplayer, connectivity, cloud saves, social whatnots, all of that adds complexity and maybe a lot of that doesn't have any bearing on the function of a game installer but when you're talking about what is the thing that programmers are working on, where are the programmers putting their work, they're putting it in one area/on one thing, at one time.

so what I'm saying is, it could be from their perspective, Galaxy is going to become the brains of the thing. so instead of having, you know, Galaxy do the multiplayer and the cloud saves, and innosetup do the gameballs and whatnot, everything will shift more towards Galaxy because then that's easier to debug, to test, to write, to deploy, to manage and so on.

now I'm not saying they shouldn't also do the work for the offline installers to be able to manage themselves. when you're talking about the games not being able to install without the thing that's being created for the connection and the cloud saves and the platform and so on then we're starting to get into DRM slippery slope stuff here I realize. which is... really bad. I'm saying from a technical standpoint, there could be practical engineering reasons for them needing Galaxy in the gameballs right now or wanting it there for the future.

anyway originally I just wanted to reply to this to say it's likely they'll put some kind of long-term version of Galaxy in the installers that will update immediately upon run, if it can, and they'll probably update that freeze version of Galaxy through the library as needed, selectively as opportunities to do so happen like new patches and so on, and across the entire library periodically or when a major milestone is hit.
And that all makes sense... but I think the issue most of us are having is why in HELL is installing Galaxy the default?
Posted May 10, 2017
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johnnygoging: the problem is, what's the alternative? the installers need to work offline. therefore they have to test cert and package some kind of ship version of galaxy in the installers otherwise Galaxy can't work in an environment with no internet connection. they're not idiots, they saw this too. you could have it that they just include some kind of net installer in the gameball that would take like a megabyte or so but then that would fail with no internet. so for somebody who throws a gog game on their laptop and then installs it without internet, they don't know where the Galaxy is. it's not ideal from the standpoint of deploying the client successfully from a purely technical standpoint. I get that that's reaching though. I don't see why they wouldn't install the gameball at download time. I get that's... yeah. I get that.
The installers can work offline even if Galaxy is included or not. This won't change that. If you can't connect online Galaxy would simply not be installed and the installation would continue and GOG can then point you to where to get Galaxy for when you can get online. It's not a good enough reason to bloat installers honestly.

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johnnygoging: here's the thing though. if they are working on this piece of software, Galaxy, to manage and manipulate their game library and deployment of their licensed content and user facing environment, all this stuff right, then they are building everything around it. everything. it may be, that, in the future, or right now, Galaxy is responsible for handling configurations, data, crypto, all this stuff. it could be that the future versions of the gameballs will require Galaxy in order to deploy.

it's like right now, it's innosetup, and that blows up everything and it works. as they bring in multiplayer, connectivity, cloud saves, social whatnots, all of that adds complexity and maybe a lot of that doesn't have any bearing on the function of a game installer but when you're talking about what is the thing that programmers are working on, where are the programmers putting their work, they're putting it in one area/on one thing, at one time.

so what I'm saying is, it could be from their perspective, Galaxy is going to become the brains of the thing. so instead of having, you know, Galaxy do the multiplayer and the cloud saves, and innosetup do the gameballs and whatnot, everything will shift more towards Galaxy because then that's easier to debug, to test, to write, to deploy, to manage and so on.

now I'm not saying they shouldn't also do the work for the offline installers to be able to manage themselves. when you're talking about the games not being able to install without the thing that's being created for the connection and the cloud saves and the platform and so on then we're starting to get into DRM slippery slope stuff here I realize. which is... really bad. I'm saying from a technical standpoint, there could be practical engineering reasons for them needing Galaxy in the gameballs right now or wanting it there for the future.

anyway originally I just wanted to reply to this to say it's likely they'll put some kind of long-term version of Galaxy in the installers that will update immediately upon run, if it can, and they'll probably update that freeze version of Galaxy through the library as needed, selectively as opportunities to do so happen like new patches and so on, and across the entire library periodically or when a major milestone is hit.
If they continue to build Galaxy in the way they have been, none of this should be an issue. The games hook into Galaxy, they are not built to fundamentally need Galaxy for anything (outside of online MP of course). This is why GOG already packages a butch of dll files, etc. into the builds that are packaged into the standalone installer so that the games can hook into Galaxy IF Galaxy is installed, but otherwise work like normal and some people around here already have irrational feelings about GOG doing that.

There are plenty of ways they could streamline this process though if they wanted too without having to devote to much resources to keep standalone installers up for a arguably much smaller user base.

No, I think it's clear GOG motive is to integrate Galaxy, the thing that have spent 2 years working on into everything that GOG now stands for. That doesn't mean that don't want to keep it optional, but they do want to make it the focal point of the GOG experience and they can do that, and still be respectful with how they do it.
Post edited May 10, 2017 by BKGaming
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
Amazing, 26 pages (and counting) of everyone in this forum agreeing; I didn't think that'd be possible.

I also agree: it is bloatware, it should be "opt in" and not "opt out" and the reasons given are utter BS.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
Then make it a download option at the time of install instead of ruining the experience for those with metered connections. A simple dialogue box with "Would you like to install Galaxy? It provides achievement support, cloud saves, and more. [Yes] [No]" It would improve the experience without resorting to the same bloatware/malware experience a lot of us have been trying to avoid.

To make this clear, I say this as someone who uses Galaxy for its downloader and update notification features.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
Hey, GOG has a client now too, it's called "Galaxy", have you heard about it? I must have missed it on the site all the time but apparently it's out for a while now. Where do I find the download for it? It's really well hidden!
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base.
Shall I take that as a sign of our new status as a minority among a mass of regular GOG customers that have only mastered the basic skills of [url=http://www.teluguone.com/tonecmsuserfiles/Use%20Mouse(1).png]using the mouse[/url] and pushing the power button to start their computers?

You know, there's an old saying: "Treat other people as you wish, but know that it will determine how your relationship with those people ends up in the long run". E.g.: treat all your friends as idiots and you'll eventually end up having only idiots for friends.

In all honesty, a guided video tour of 5 minutes regarding what Galaxy is, what it does for you, how you can install it etc. can clear up any doubts a 6 year old might have about the whole thing, if done properly. There's no need for any overhead, changes to your installers, the way you build them, and even no rupture in the relation with a tech-savvy minority of your users that can indeed untick things if forced to do so, but had higher expectations when it came to their relationship with GOG.
Post edited May 10, 2017 by WinterSnowfall
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
I've been using Galaxy since it launched here, possibly more out of some misguided sense of loyalty towards gog than anything else, but I never had any issues with it.

That being said, including Galaxy in the offline installers is a terrible, terrible idea. Goes against everything gog once stood for. The rationale given by gog is insulting, to say the least.

I wish I could be more eloquent about just how awful this idea is, but thankfully there are some 500 posts here already that have done just that. You know, politics bullshit and trolling aside, it's moments like these that I'm actually proud to be a part of this community. It's a shame that the management just continually lets this community down by successively betraying all their former principles.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
Like I said yesterday, what gives GOG a HUGE advantage over steam, is allowing us to just download the game to our desktop and play from our desktop. Why take away that advantage, by trying to trick us into using a client that we've already chosen not to use?

It makes a lot more sense to leave the galaxy option unticked by default.
Those that want to use it, can tick the box ONCE AND ONCE ONLY.
Isn't that better than making the rest of us UNtick the box EVERY SINGLE TIME?

And again, why do you assume new users want to use a client anyway, rather than downloading it to her desktop as normal?
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
It makes absolutely no sense for GOG Galaxy to be included in the offline installers except when you look at it through purpose of agenda.

//Flash Forward//
"We've decided to retire the offline installers, since no-one uses them anyway. Also, GOG Galaxy is now mandatory, but that doesn't matter because everyone already has it installed anyway."

All in the name of the "most convenient experience".


Please wake up, we need to stop this movement in it's tracks before we find ourselves digging around warez sites looking for defunct offline installers that we legally own.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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FrodoBaggins: And again, why do you assume new users want to use a client anyway, rather than downloading it to her desktop as normal?
Creating Galaxy has cost a lot of money. Obviously everyone has to use it – otherwise the manager that decided to start the development will get fired.

It's like the Microsoft's Windows 10 update “campaign”. The fear and last spasm of a dying company.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
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Klumpen0815: Still in full condescension mode, eh?
Still ignoring how even the Galaxy fans here clearly say that this is utter nonsense and extremely dishonest.

For the last time:
People downloading the offline installers already decided against Galaxy since everyone else clicked one of the many surplus Galaxy advertisements instead of downloading individual game files himself.
We do not want Galaxy and we do not care how much effort has been put into it. For us it was a waste of resources since we're here for a client-free experience!
We don't stand in the way of the client fans so stop bothering us with it in such extreme ways!
This is the point. GOG have invested considerable resources, and they need a good ROI. But adding it in the installers, and making it the default option, is a mistake, a big one. GOG assumes we are not intelligent enough to install it separatedly.

By the way, don't throw us those 12K users to our faces asking for cloud saves. Several dozens of thousands players don't even need that feature, nor the Galaxy client itself.
Post edited May 10, 2017 by murcielago
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
So I decided to look at the Galaxy page again. There was this one paragraph which is now being contradicted by your actions. In the MORE section in www.gog.com/galaxy you'll find this little snip at the end:

Always optional
Beyond all these features, GOG Galaxy will never be mandatory. And that’s great motivation for us - we want to make it so good, that you actually want to use it.
So rather by forcing every single one of us to untick the box to install something, why not just keep improving it and improving it so that you make it so good that you actually want to use it, to put it in your own words? Instead of trying to do these tactics like you are doing now.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
Please vote for one or two of these wishlist entries if you are against this change

Don't bundle Galaxy with the offline installers:
https://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/remove_the_socalled_optional_galaxy_client_from_any_all_offline_installers

Don't make installing Galaxy an opt-out option:
https://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/dont_make_installing_galaxy_the_default_setting_in_standalone_game_installers

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mechmouse: I suggest a system that can be set at account level. A flag on the account which denotes classic or client users.
Thanks for the great suggestion. That would be ideal for many people, so I created a wishlist entry (that's the only way I can think of to remain constructive):
https://www.gog.com/wishlist/site/galaxyfree_installers_accountbased_option

If GOG don't change their mind, they may have already lost me as a customer (and I was thinking of buying a game :/).
Post edited May 10, 2017 by 0Grapher
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Community
General discussionOffline installers with an option to install GOG Galaxy(1687 posts)(1687 posts)
(1687 posts)