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General discussionOffline installers with an option to install GOG Galaxy(1687 posts)(1687 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 06, 2017
low rated
Thanks for bearing with us in this thread. We’d like to announce that today we’ve introduced the addition of new installers, with implemented GOG Galaxy client.

Like Destro described it back in May, we decided to separate the „new" and „classic” installers, for your choice. So if you don’t care about the features like achievements or cloud-saves and don’t want to use GOG Galaxy, you can download the „Classic Game Installer", just like it was handled before. For games that have new installers, the default download view on „My account” will show the "GOG Galaxy Game Installers" - you will notice that, as it is visibly described in „My account” game view. To download the „classic” ones, just go to „Options" and choose „Classic Installers”.

The new GOG Galaxy Game Installers were added to +100 games - a selection of all games that make use of GOG Galaxy features. I'll post the current list of games with the new installers in a separate post.
Going forward, all new games that will use GOG Galaxy features, will now receive both GOG Galaxy Game Installer and Classic Game Installer.

Introduction of GOG Galaxy Game Installers doesn’t change anything in terms of keeping the Classic Game Installers up to date. As soon as we receive an update for any game, we will prepare an updated version of the classic installer, just like it was done in the past.

Edit: Pinned.
Post edited July 06, 2017 by fables22
Posted May 10, 2017
low rated
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fables22: As for the option being opted in as default - after careful consideration, we've decided to go with this because we believe that it's easier for an experienced user to uncheck the box than it would be for a new user to figure out how to turn the feature on.
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yogsloth: This is just disgusting poison. Horrible, horrible, horrible.

Every time I download something, I have to uncheck the box - and if I forget even a single time, I'll have this unwanted piece of crap installed on my machine and I'll have to get elbows-deep trying to hunt down and remove every scrap? And then if I forget to uncheck the box a second time - do it all over again.

I just can't understand.

GOG - if you become Steam, you become redundant and no longer needed. Why would I want Steam Jr, when I could just go get the real thing?

I'm here because when I came here a few years ago, GOG wasn't Steam. That's the point.

The more you ram this garbage down our throats, the more you kill your own competitive advantage, and nobody will need you anymore.

The client is already mandatory for many features in GOG games, and even some games entirely (Descent). The day is coming when it's mandatory for everything, and you're a damn fool if you don't see it.
To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
At the cost of everyone here. Yes, it does clarify things. Thank you.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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yogsloth: This is just disgusting poison. Horrible, horrible, horrible.

Every time I download something, I have to uncheck the box - and if I forget even a single time, I'll have this unwanted piece of crap installed on my machine and I'll have to get elbows-deep trying to hunt down and remove every scrap? And then if I forget to uncheck the box a second time - do it all over again.

I just can't understand.

GOG - if you become Steam, you become redundant and no longer needed. Why would I want Steam Jr, when I could just go get the real thing?

I'm here because when I came here a few years ago, GOG wasn't Steam. That's the point.

The more you ram this garbage down our throats, the more you kill your own competitive advantage, and nobody will need you anymore.

The client is already mandatory for many features in GOG games, and even some games entirely (Descent). The day is coming when it's mandatory for everything, and you're a damn fool if you don't see it.
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
This I understand. As GoG starts getting more mainstream more users are going to expect a client as standard, and not be used to a client free existence.

I suggest a system that can be set at account level. A flag on the account which denotes classic or client users.

When new accounts are made give the person the choice at that point to either go for client based or classic installers.

That way, less experienced newcomers are catered for while those who are more experienced can keep their installers at bloat free as before.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
This is bullshit! :(

GOG is trying to force people so hard to use Galaxy that it beomes really annoying. Putting a Galaxy installer into the offline installers is an absolute no go!!

If GOG keep up with this crap i'll have to stop buying games here sooner than i expected...
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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timppu: Was this 150MB verified by someone, or is this just an assumption what it might be? If GOG insist adding a Galaxy installer to many/most GOG offline installers, they should add it as a small stub, which downloads rest of the install data from online. Look at Steam: when you download the Steam installer from the steampowered.com, it is mere 1.4MB in size (SteamSetup.exe), and when you run that, it downloads the actual installer data online.
If it downloads information it's not an offline installer any more.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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mechmouse: This I understand. As GoG starts getting more mainstream more users are going to expect a client as standard, and not be used to a client free existence.

I suggest a system that can be set at account level. A flag on the account which denotes classic or client users.

When new accounts are made give the person the choice at that point to either go for client based or classic installers.

That way, less experienced newcomers are catered for while those who are more experienced can keep their installers at bloat free as before.
I support this. It would be a good option if you could shutdown this option for all offline installers at your account.

Its just stupid that you have to do it for every installer separately.
Post edited May 10, 2017 by Matruchus
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
avatar
yogsloth: This is just disgusting poison. Horrible, horrible, horrible.

Every time I download something, I have to uncheck the box - and if I forget even a single time, I'll have this unwanted piece of crap installed on my machine and I'll have to get elbows-deep trying to hunt down and remove every scrap? And then if I forget to uncheck the box a second time - do it all over again.

I just can't understand.

GOG - if you become Steam, you become redundant and no longer needed. Why would I want Steam Jr, when I could just go get the real thing?

I'm here because when I came here a few years ago, GOG wasn't Steam. That's the point.

The more you ram this garbage down our throats, the more you kill your own competitive advantage, and nobody will need you anymore.

The client is already mandatory for many features in GOG games, and even some games entirely (Descent). The day is coming when it's mandatory for everything, and you're a damn fool if you don't see it.
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
oh yes its quite clear very clear in fact
we dont matter any more we never mattered in fact that much is clear now
and no amount of PR bullshit wil hide the fact that gog doesnt care about their customers or the open contempt gog has for us

congratulations gog you already lost me on the forums
now you wil lose me as a customer as well
steam will happily take my money with out patronizing PR bullshit

i doubt i wil be the only one
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
Then inform them. Make the "blue button" on the download page more informative than "Try GOG Galaxy"

Like make 2 parts on the download page. The first one, on top, saying "Install your game with Galaxy (automatic updates, client, cloud saves and more services". The other one "download a manual installer from the website (for offline install and archive)". Make the two of them obvious, and make clear that Galaxy is the default choice.

Hell, make it obvious also on the installer : An advertisement during the install, a popup, a big "download Galaxy" button on the final screen. Draw attention to the unchecked box.

The checked box? Puts you in adware territory. Since galaxy install is needed only once, it means that the people who do multiple installs from the installers do NOT need them : Either they already have Galaxy from the first time (and download the installer for some other reason. Happens to me when I want to install on my 2 PCs, for example), or don't want it. It will be a permanent irritation to uncheck that box each and every time, and having to chase it down every time they forget.

Right now, the way you do it is forcing Galaxy down the throat of the very people who come here because Galaxy is not mandatory. Unless it's part of a play to make Galaxy mandatory (which you said is not the case, and I see no reason for which you would make a blatant lie, since it's very bad policy for any company), it's very, VERY conterproductive.

And note that I was part of the uneducated, non-tech-savvy crowd when I came here, so I understand you try to reach out for them. But the way you're doing things right now will be confusing for them too!
Post edited May 10, 2017 by Kardwill
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
I like auto-updating games, not having to download individual patch files and keeping track of them all.
I like cloud saves because it allows one to carry on playing the games from where they left off, regardless of the fact that they switched devices or just reinstalled the OS.
I like having a client to organize my library, have a nice integrated chat client, ability to browse through the store without a browser.

That being said, I understand not everyone will want to use a client to manage their games, installers and extras.
I understand that a client is the first step towards a possible light DRM scheme being implemented: Game X requires Galaxy to run because it uses Y and Z for multiplayer, achievements, cloud-save etc. Some may argue that is not DRM but is it not? Is it not the same thing Steam does in which they do not enforce any of the features on the games sold in their store but any game that uses any features like Cloud saves or Steamworks is inevitably tied to the Steam client and thus it is considered DRM?

If GOG is indeed heading towards providing the same features Steam is offering, then they will be in exactly the same situation as Steam, the only differences being the following:
- They may refuse to accept games that have any form of *outside* DRM included (Ex: Denuvo)
- They have no Linux client (yet) and put no/little effort into supporting multiplatform libraries and engines
- Zero involvement in advancing Linux drivers and other technologies

If all they are doing is a poor man's version of Steam, why even do it in the first place?
The client is taking forever to develop, was probably not designed from the ground up to be multiplatform which is the reason why we are still not seeing any mention of the Linux version, the features are severely lacking for something that's been in development for over 2 years and there doesn't seem to be anything being offered (feature-wise) that would make it a better client than Steam.

The forum is outdated, the site features are also lacking (why are you not integrating features from MaGOG, Adalia Fundamentals and Barefoot Essentials is beyond any reasoning).

I'm still gonna stick around for a while and see where the ship's headed but right now, as a person who enjoys playing video games, keeping them up-to-date and having all features included, having Linux be truly supported and improved upon, I see little reason to stick with GOG and that makes me sad.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
If they are smart enough to go through registration process, buying a game, locating offline installer and installing the game I'm sure they are smart enough to click on a button expressing their will to use Galaxy (this part concerning the default install option). No need to make that decision for them at the expense of existing user base.

And logically - it makes no sense to have a client focused on online features in an offline installer.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
Yes, it makes sense to push those users towards Galaxy. But those users won't be using the offline installers in the first place so this change will never affect them. The only people it affects are the people who choose not to use Galaxy in the first place. It's completely illogical.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
Why in bloody hell would the people you describe want to bother with OFFLINE installers???

This is every bit as laughable as the previous attempt. Anyone -- and I do mean ANYONE -- who is savvy enough to create an account and buy a game, is savvy enough to install Galaxy without this new policy.

Honesty would serve you far better here, GOG. It really would.
Post edited May 10, 2017 by richlind33
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
Fables, I have a couple of questions regarding your motivations, as this post hasn't cleared up anything. If you don't know how to answer one of my questions, please ask the relevant stuff and let us know.

By answering my questions below, you help clear up the underlying issue and mainly tell us of your intentions a bit more clearly?

1. Are there any plans to save the checkbox setting in a registry so that people who uncheck it once don't have to uncheck it again?
2. How will Galaxy be included in the installers? Is the full installer going to be included, or just a stub?
3. If it is the full installer, do you expect to be able to update the installers every single time it gets updated?
4. What about people who use Galaxy to download the installers? Will they get additional instances of Galaxy?
5. Is there any plan to instead of relying on an OPT-OUT checkbox, that you instead point the user to a link to Galaxy?

Honestly, if you can register on your site, buy, then go to the accounts page and download the game, then the user is experienced enough to OPT-IN to optional software. There can't be someone who is this dumb. It doesn't even require you to be as tech-savvy as you claim to be.

Please answer these questions and come back to us.
Posted May 10, 2017
high rated
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fables22: To explain our motivations behind this a little better one more time - not all our users are as tech-savvy as our forum user-base. Some people just come to GOG, grab a game, and that's that for them. They expect everything to work from the get-go, without having to manually tinker with configurations, backups, etc. (after all, cloud saves were the most voted Wishlist entry with over 12k votes, with many people rightfully expressing their frustrations about lost saves with games that they expected would backup to the cloud automatically). With GOG Galaxy included in the offline installers, those users will get as good a user experience as we want them to have, with their installations updating, with their multiplayer working, and with their hours of gameplay saved and backed up. Hope this clarifies it a little.
Except that it's pretty much impossible to miss the many messages promoting the Galaxy client that are scattered around the website and account pages, and downloading and using the offline installers is already a more complex process than using the Galaxy client; if someone wanted to use Galaxy then they would have done so already before getting as far as downloading the offline installers. The overwhelming majority of people that download the offline installers will have deliberately done so to avoid using the Galaxy client.

And those that download the offline intallers from within the Galaxy client already know enough to get and install the Galaxy client in the first place, otherwise they wouldn't be using it already to download the offline installers.
Post edited May 10, 2017 by adamhm
Posted May 10, 2017
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TT_TT_TT_TT: i'm totally against the forced op-out and the increased download size of the installers (doesnt matter if it's 1MB , 2MB or 150MB - it just adds up if you are having a bigger collection).
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timppu: To me that is the most important question. With 1356 downloaded games, 150MB times hundreds is far far FAAAAAAR worse than 2MB times hundreds (for my whole collection).

If GOG adds a mere 1.4MB GalaxySetup.exe to offline installers (similarly how the SteamSetup.exe stub is only 1.4MB in size), then I personally don't consider it worse than how many GOG offline installers have the FoxIt PDF reader installer nowadays. Or even how all DOSBox games have their own DOSBox included, or ScummVM games have ScummVM in each game separately, etc. I can live with a couple more megabytes per game, but 150MB per game?

Plus, if it is a mere 1.4MB installer stub and not a 150Mb full Galaxy installer, then GOG probably doesn't have to keep updating that Galaxy installer on all those GOG game offline installers, over and over again. As long as the stub installer is relatively new, it should be able to download the very latest Galaxy installer data, when needed.

I hope Fables has courage to come tell what kind of Galaxy installer is going to be included in those games.

Ps. Is Fables a he or she? I always considered them as a guy due to the avatar, but many seem to refer to her as a her. Beside the point I guess, just want to know how strong swear words I can use.
Well true dat - like <2 MB without a set opt-out option and also without having the offline installers updated every other week would/could be kinda acceptable - but well right now we have the OPT-IN set and 0 Knowledge about how this embedded Galaxy will influence the update rate of the offline installers nor on the size we have to expect. And well where to draw a border? Is it 3MB? is it 5MB? is it 10MB? is it 20?.... Might be an arbitrary value for each of us. I guess for me it would be 5MB , with the set opt out and if the offline installers being update only once with the galaxy stub and then only when the actual game gets updated....
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionOffline installers with an option to install GOG Galaxy(1687 posts)(1687 posts)
(1687 posts)