T is a difficult subject...

... but some gender ambiguity has been with humanity since the inception of society.

To disregard this would be intellectually dishonest.

In fact traditional Polynesian cultures revered males who lived in the female role... but again, these people worked for their society, not undermine it.

The problem today is...

... "transsexual" transition was meant for those with persistent and debilitating cross-gender feelings (dysmorphia). This was meant as a treatment primarily for people born with some level of DSD (disorder of sexual development). As can be imagined, this group was VERY small and seemed to have relatively good outcomes.

In the late 1990's...

... a transvestite (a person who derives sexual pleasure from dressing as the opposite sex) coined the term "transgender" in order to get the ability to "transition." (prior to this transvestites were not permitted to transition per the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care). The "transgender" community exploded since there are far more "transvestites" than "transsexuals."

The medical / psychological establishment adopted "transgender" and in the mid 2000's lowered rules for medical transition to allow transition with fewer and fewer "checks and balances." As this has occured, young people -- who already feel uncertain of their bodies, roles, and places in society have gravitated toward transgenderism.

So, with that said...

... you may be surprised to find that many "transsexuals" believe in the gender binary (they wish to be part of society), believe in rigorous "gatekeeping" prior to transition (to make certain they are benefiting their lives and truly entering the role they are meant to live), and cannot understand the "transgender" or "non-binary." In fact many see those groups as undermining the medical and legal validity of transition.

So, when talking of "T"...

... yes, the current "transgender" radicals are problematic for many reasons, but there is much more in the "T" than you might think

If it were me, I'd be looking hard at the medical establishment for their reasons for making giant, life-altering changes easier and easier for people young and younger with other underlying issues.

Weird! That certainly never seemed to be the mentality for Cyberpunk stuff.

Why should i stick to your point when you can't even stick to mine? You don't get to change the topic then complained that i derailed. As continued to be demonstrated for all to see, sure. What we generally celebrate is people overcoming something. But pride appears to be moving away from that. And, same with black history month. Instead, we keep getting told how no one overcame. Wouldn't that mean we're celebrating a little early? Oh goodie, i said something about keeping it in their bedrooms? Why does anyone think that I have a problem with gay people or something? The non-straight people i interact with the most see pride as an insult. They push back, themselves. Imagine being these people for a minute that turn around and have to say "no, I don't support hating on gay people, as I am gay" or "no, I agree the age of consent for both sex and medical treatment is 18." I can imagine the poor trans people right now saying "no, i don't believe you should conform to my whims if you don't like what is beneath my skirt." And the whole marketing behind it is an insult to them, too. Pride used to be wholesome, back in the day. You're right, an argument is independent of the speaker. But, you're not exactly known for not trying to throw authority around. Frankly, I have doubts to all the sentiment i keep hearing. I just keep seeing people who pride themselves on their education, status, etc, all going around telling people how they know how to fix a problem, but no one else does. The whole hubris of it all, and often times these people are so separated from the impoverished it's questionable they even know what poverty looks like. And this can be said of pretty much anyone in the west compared to third world countries, but if we're going to use a western standard for western countries, i still doubt those shouting that they know the solution have any connection to what's going on. For all the words and money that get thrown at the problem, it sure as hell never seems to be getting better. In fact, for some reason things seem to be getting worse on the racism front, but i'm sure scapegoats X, Y, and Z to blame.

I mean, common, dirt's dirt. Nothing can go wrong extending the homestead act so people start tilling a bunch of dirt in dry territory. You see, the experts have it all figured out. There's no possibility that they left something unaccounted for.
Given the amount of support for those who actually make no changes, jsut simply declare pronouns, i'm gonna go with this being part of the church of post-modernism. It's not enough that we let someone be, but somehow not seeing someone the way they want to be seen is somehow harming that person.

I actually answered your point, you never did mine. I mean, I can't force you to reply to the relevant topic at hand - you can go off on tangents with personal anecdotes and fantasise about the Pride that was, and is no more, suit yourself. I'm still definitely gonna point it out though for the hell of it, as I wrote quite a bit and you handwaived it away for no reason.

Wait. You actually think LGBTQ+ have overcome nothing? Even in 2021? Wow. Hence why we are not communicating. That's delusional.

And you conveniently dodged the question. A simple pertinent, straight question lobbed at you. Well, not conveniently, more like unsurprisingly.

It's clear you object to Pride. Sure. But why is it? Really? Why do you take such offense at a minority celebrating? Ask yourself that and try to answer truthfully. None of this 'wellll, my gay friend said something about it, so I'm gonna think it's a disgusting celebration now anyways and in any case it coincides with my views'.

Lol, what 'authority' do you exactly think I have on a vidya gaming forum between anonymous forum goers trying to desperately discuss politics? It's really sad when I put it that way actually. Hm.

Unequivocal biological sex is a fact for the vast majority of people (yes, I know, there are intersexuals, and their status should be a granted legal recognition, but that's a different subject from trans issues imo). So what's "gender ambiguity" supposed to mean? I mean we're not talking about a movement here which seeks to soften rigid gender roles, in the sense of boys exploring their "feminine" side and doing ballet or whatever, helping women get ahead in male-dominated professions etc. We're talking about something altogether more radical.
Anyway, I probably shouldn't write more, I've been suspended twice in the past, and I don't want to risk another ban. My views should have become clear enough.

You didn't. 'Cause you didn't address the point... It's called sarcasm. I honestly think the community has overcome alot, however you think that the way the complaints are levied. Because it's not pride. And, well, it's not about celebrating overcoming something if we keep getting told that nothing was overcome, or that there's alot of work ahead, or whatever. You'd think that it should be a celebration for society as a whole, instead a minority, right? The same thing is in the past opposition to Christmas, which has largely been the same way. An atheist society doesn't really think Christmas represents it, anymore (most do, but some don't, and it's those vocal few who oppose it). What i'd like to know is why we also don't celebrate the end of slavery (then again, it is still being practiced in some parts of the world). Also, why a month instead of a day like other holidays? Jews only ask for a week for their cultural heritage, and i think i could get behind that, especially as it ultimately is the cultural heritage of most of the west, and I don't think we appreciate them enough. None, really, same as everyone else who bothers to enter this topic, even so far as the gog staff. But, hey, I'm anti-authority at the end of the day, so I wouldn't be such a good person to ask. Mankind always seems to love sticking it's foot in it's mouth.

Thank you for the disclaimer; I'm also trying to keep this discussion as civil as possible.

Scientific articles aren't as authoritarian as you might think. They do research, discussions, visit conferences, etc. to produce results. Oftentimes, their work is based of large sample sizes conducted by 2+ highly trained specialists (PhD, Masters), reviewed by 2-3+ third-party trained specialists of the community, and then publish on journals for all the experts in the community to read, critique, and reproduce its results. If they've passed through those checks, then it becomes assimilated into the community knowledge.

It's not perfect because it's got its own problems with research funding, academia politics, citation bias, bogey experiment setup and results, poor journals, etc., but it's the best system available to draw non-biased facts from since results can be reproduced to within an acceptable margin of error to confirm findings. This is because you aren't just drawing from one person's life experience; you're drawing from the knowledge of the sample size's experiences in the dozens, hundreds, thousands, etc. supported by two dozen other professional works, and at least half a dozen experts to produce these labour-intensive works. Then they can form a community opinion on the subject. From there, it's up to lawmakers to take that distilled info and enact it if they believe it's what their constituents want. So there is present multiple layers of separation between scientists' opinions, biased or not, and lawmakers they report to.

The more holidays, the better for us regular folks.

Thank you for clarifying. Sometimes people want some time to celebrate both their uncontrollable identity and to celebrate past achievements. For example, Turing is also celebrated this month who contributed to WW2 decryption efforts and is widely considered the father of modern computer science. And certainly there are no shortages of patriots celebrating their uncontrollable identities in their respective countries too. Again, as long as no one is getting hurt or elevating themselves above regular citizens, let them be.

Also, everyone is working on making and working towards things during normal days. Unless I'm missing something, LGBTQ+ people work the same 8-12 hours as the rest of us miserable people. And they go home to celebrate whatever on their own time like a relative's birthday just like the rest of us. No negative externalities here, so what's the harm besides thinking it's dumb?

They're both similar in celebrating a history and lifestyle. And it is part of the collective consciousness if it's celebrated as a public holiday where people are given time off their everyday lives to celebrate it. Deciding what people should be celebrating or what to take pride in is not up to the sole decision of laypeople like you or me except at a household level. It's up to communities and governments to work together to decide that. If you think all festivities should be banned, you're more than welcome to start your own community and recruit others into your campaign to get public acknowledgement.

I have a suspicion if LGBTQ+ community were given the same level of respect as Irish Americans or Jewish Americans as previously mentioned, they wouldn't be so prominent in the parades, news, and so highly politicized like the Irish or Jewish American populations. There are a list of other observance months I've never heard of and I surmise it's because their plights aren't as severe or as persistent as it is in the LGBTQ+ community.

IMHO this topic has gotten toxic and that it should be locked. if anyone has any objections, state the reason why.

This is where it gets sticky, because if we are to recognize intersex, and also accept their transitions (should they choose to engage in this), that means we also have to accept the transitions of transsexuals as well, just fundamentally speaking. I don't see how you could separate them, given the transgender argument is often right-brain-wrong-body or something to that effect (weird how that argument stayed around). The fundamental opposition should, however, be specific to the jurisdiction: it is my choice whether or not I accept a certain notion or not (i could go deeper on this, but what's the point?. It gets stickier when involving the government. Frankly, the government should be keeping itself to sex, rather than gender, because the ambiguity that gender provides is untenable, especially when unironic whim-flipping is argued for, and the challenge of going beyond 2. As for the effects of hormones on sports and prisons, i think that can be handled better (for sports, let the organzations themselves sort that out, and for prisons, you should probably be raising workplace safety standards for corrections officers to begin with).

People who want to post in this thread might get frustrated and compensate by committing some violent crime...do you want that?

Fundamentally i disagree with topics getting locked. The more you avoid issues, the more the derailing and such will happen, just because people need to "get it out." We're having the problem of discussion precisely because society has been avoiding this issue. More avoidance isn't going to solve it.

Those people need to see a therapist, IMHO and you have no right of inciting violence.
the problem is that as more and more people fight over a controversial topic, it gets locked anyway. just watch. This forum is dead to me. if these people want to do what they want to do, fine by me. just stop getting me involved in it.

You don't understand what intersex is, they're people whose biological sex is ambiguous. That clearly needs to be accommodated in some way, either by granting them legal recognition as a "third sex" (which many of them want) or letting them choose what they want to be in legal terms.
And no, I don't think this means one has to accept transgenderism. These are very distinct issues.
No, I'm trying to prevent violence. And therapists are expensive and have long waiting lists, so that isn't really a useful recommendation.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly agree with the sentiment, but I do believe that there's an issue that human beings being forced quiet will speak up with violence. The more someone's backed into a corner, especially after being radicalized and have no way to challenge their radical ideas, the more likely they are to snap. You would be right, but that's precisely where the problem comes from. information silos, and it's always someone else's problem. Not saying gog'll solve it, but someone's gotta get an idea somewhere.
I thought from the context we were talking about people with "both parts." As a result, if we recognize what they do to convert to one sex or the other (which often happens), then we need to recognize transsexuals similarly, else what basis do we have to support or condemn one but not the other?

Sure. On the other hand, there's the whole Internet out there for everyone to "get it out", and this here is like the "sir, this is Wendy's" meme coming to life.