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Trilarion: [...]
What about: Steam is mostly DRM.
[...]
What about "Steam is not DRM, CEG is DRM" .... that's my take on it at least. Not sure why we can not be correct.

Just a side note - there are also games on Steam making use of third party DRM, but not CEG. Not sure if it adds anything, though.
Post edited October 02, 2014 by amok
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Trilarion: [...]
What about: Steam is mostly DRM.
[...]
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amok: What about "Steam is not DRM, CEG is DRM" .... that's my take on it at least. Not sure why we can not be correct. It is a bit saying "Discs are DRM" because a majority of games coming on disks needed to have the disk in the drive to play the game.

Just a side note - there are also games on Steam making use of third party DRM, but not CEG. Not sure if it adds anything, though.
Well discs are drm, because when you buy a game you buy a game, not a disc. The price you pay is for the game, the disc is just a means to deliver the product to your computer. And steam is drm, you loose your account - you loose your games. So steam is same tool for games as disc.
Post edited October 02, 2014 by ambient_orange
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amok: What about "Steam is not DRM, CEG is DRM" .... that's my take on it at least. Not sure why we can not be correct. It is a bit saying "Discs are DRM" because a majority of games coming on disks needed to have the disk in the drive to play the game.

Just a side note - there are also games on Steam making use of third party DRM, but not CEG. Not sure if it adds anything, though.
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ambient_orange: Well discs are drm, because when you buy a game you buy a game, not a disc. The price you pay is for the game, the disc is just a means to deliver the product to your computer. And steam is drm, you loose your account - you loose your games. So steam is same tool for games as disc.
removed my allegory, as I pulled a Timpuu :)
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Trilarion: Okay, the important point here is that Paradox itself doesn't use Steam's DRM or do they? So for them Steam might be DRM or might not. I think it comes down to this.
Unsure. The example of CKII being used recently, it seems that the base game can be played just fine without Steam, but the DLCs depend on steam to be accessible. Not sure for their other recent games, or their older ones.
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ambient_orange: [...] because when you buy a game you buy a game, not a disc. [...]
Correction (because I am a stickler for these things...). When you buy a game on a disk, you in fact buy a disk and a license to play a game, you do not buy a game. It just happens that the software you bought a license for is also on the disk you bought (convenient, no?). So what you are saying there is actually opposite of what really happens - you buy a disk, not a game. The disk is your to do with as you please, erase it, sell it, cook it for breakfast - but the game is bound by the licence agreement.... anyway....
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amok: ... What about "Steam is not DRM, CEG is DRM" ...
Could be seen as too long and too complicated. I just want to describe as short as possible, not write a thesis about the topic. Also CEG is part of Steam, so I don't want to separate CEG and Steam and I want to avoid introducing CEG which is a much less known acronym than DRM for example.

My version will be: "Steam mostly has DRM". I think the have instead of be reasonably well describes that Steam is more than just DRM although it also very prominently features DRM. For me this is the right kind of balance.
I don't think of Steam as DRM necessarily, but I don't like Steam's "monopoly" so I try to support GOG within reason.
Post edited October 02, 2014 by tfishell
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amok: ... What about "Steam is not DRM, CEG is DRM" ...
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Trilarion: Could be seen as too long and too complicated. I just want to describe as short as possible, not write a thesis about the topic. Also CEG is part of Steam, so I don't want to separate CEG and Steam and I want to avoid introducing CEG which is a much less known acronym than DRM for example.

My version will be: "Steam mostly has DRM". I think the have instead of be reasonably well describes that Steam is more than just DRM although it also very prominently features DRM. For me this is the right kind of balance.
do you do it with all stores?

Because it can be shortened to "Steam is not DRM", you know....
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Trilarion: Okay, the important point here is that Paradox itself doesn't use Steam's DRM or do they? So for them Steam might be DRM or might not. I think it comes down to this.
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JMich: Unsure. The example of CKII being used recently, it seems that the base game can be played just fine without Steam, but the DLCs depend on steam to be accessible. Not sure for their other recent games, or their older ones.
And the number of DLCs is quite large. They are a substantial part of the game. But then what does it mean to say "Steam is DRM" or saying "Steam is not but Steam's DRM is DRM". We all know what is meant by both. We shouldn't nitpick the words too much except saying that some games are without DRM on Steam.
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tfishell: I don't think of Steam as DRM necessarily, but I don't like Steam's "monopoly" so I try to support GOG within reason.
You mean, Steam has no DRM or Steam's DRM is not really visible or you don't care much about Steam's DRM?
Post edited October 02, 2014 by Trilarion
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JMich: Unsure. The example of CKII being used recently, it seems that the base game can be played just fine without Steam, but the DLCs depend on steam to be accessible. Not sure for their other recent games, or their older ones.
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Trilarion: And the number of DLCs is quite large. They are a substantial part of the game. But then what does it mean to say "Steam is DRM" or saying "Steam is not but Steam's DRM is DRM". We all know what is meant by both. We shouldn't nitpick the words too much except saying that some games are without DRM on Steam.
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tfishell: I don't think of Steam as DRM necessarily, but I don't like Steam's "monopoly" so I try to support GOG within reason.
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Trilarion: You mean, Steam has no DRM or Steam's DRM is not really visible or you don't care much about Steam's DRM?
Steam itself just provides games like GOG, but the client is like a cloak to cover up the fact that you can play many of these games directly from the .exe and "distract" people from pirating, if you will.

I'd consider the client DRM if indeed offline mode still has problems, IE it needs to connect every day, but it can just be a tool to make game management much easier.

I'm kind of just rambling but for your question above, I'd say it depends on the game. With GOG, though, you get (as I like to say) openly DRM-free installers - much easier to pirate but more consumer-friendly for those who don't like Steam's client, or have spotty internet, etc.
Added that Paradox-Link!
Wanted to bump this as a reminder to let publishers know you'd buy their games if they came to GOG.
Another bump to let the relevant people know about this thread:

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/drmfree_minirevolutions_facebook_twitter_and_other_contact_info
Post edited October 09, 2014 by tfishell
That SEGA thread is now archived and cannot have any new posts added, afaik. If anybody wants to create a new thread, I'm willing to post a message of support.
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tfishell: That SEGA thread is now archived and cannot have any new posts added, afaik. If anybody wants to create a new thread, I'm willing to post a message of support.
Do you know WHY this has happend?