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sanscript: What just happened - neither of you understood what Telika meant, and now you both repeated what I wrote...?
Twilight Zone
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sanscript: What just happened - neither of you understood what Telika meant, and now you both repeated what I wrote...?
Explain what Telika meant. Iam a simple man
Post edited November 14, 2016 by Years_of_Chaos
Good luck, and good night America XD
It can't really be worse than with Bush Jr. after all.
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dfgdgs
Post edited November 14, 2016 by Years_of_Chaos
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Klumpen0815: It can't really be worse than with Bush Jr. after all.
Not sure.

Lets speculate a little bit:
The masses on both sides over the last few years have been polarized into extremes. All of the latest elections was about polarizing, not about building up a general consent.
So we have the polarized masses, in which each subgroup thinks they are right because of what those runner-ups spouted out to reach as much voters as possible (not limited to the US by the way).

As with any mass like this it is only a question of time WHEN it will explode.
Lets assume, Trump will abolish abortion. What will happen? In the worst case the polarized masses on the left will incite civil unrest.
BUT also possible (and happened already the bombing), he will try to outlaw it, but during review in the judicial branch a right winger will use this as an accuse of bombing an abortion clinic or two or three. Or attacking doctors visitors and similar. Result: Again civil unrest.

The masses on both sides IMHO are not longer really controllable BECAUSE of this polarization.
Neither side will be able to calm them down, it can only get worth. Why am I saying it? Look at quite a few demonstrations, it only needs a few idiots/provocateurs to turn it into a mob. (again not limited to the US and not limited to either side) That is a problem of our instincts or however you want to call it.

The above was ONLY an example.

And this does not include anything regarding foreign policies or the results of it.
@Goodaltgamer:
Yes, this whole "us or them" thinking seems to be worsening every year in most societies not only in the West but practically everywhere including Russia, East-Asia, the Middle East etc... The clear signs of this are everywhere including here on this board where I was attacked and given nasty names too just because I took a stance against fascism per se including fascist religions, even without attacking the followers of those.
It doesn't really matter who's face is on which poster imho. Trump as well as Hillary are just clear signs of what is already there, so if people are looking for excuses to vent their anger at some "concept of the enemy", they'll find something no matter what.
Most people have no interest in reasonable compromise and general consent, because they have been trained this way out of the political interests of the upper 10%.

In the long run this society will either fall or we'll have a bunch of police states - unless people wake up and we have some global hippie revival that isn't just the radical authorative left in disguise. You can figure out the chances.
Post edited November 14, 2016 by Klumpen0815
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Klumpen0815: @Goodaltgamer:
Yes, this whole "us or them" thinking seems to be worsening every year in most societies not only in the west but practically everywhere including Russia, East-Asia, the Middle East etc... The clear signs of this are everywhere including here on this board where I was called a Nazis too just because I took a stance against fascism per se including fascist religions, even without attacking the followers of those.
It doesn't really matter who's face is on which poster imho. Trump as well as Hillary are just clear signs of what is already there, so if people are looking for excuses to vent their anger at some "concept of the enemy", they'll find something no matter what.
Most people have no interest in reasonable compromise and general consent, because they have been trained this way out of the political interests of the upper 10%.

In the long run this society will either fall or we'll have a bunch of police states - unless people wake up and we have some global hippie revival that isn't just the radical authorative left in disguise.
Your assumption is is a little bit too much based on what we had like in Germany.UK.Europe, extreme groups staging assaults in a way to vent anger or rebel (correct me if I am wrong ;)).
But what I was speculation about is far worse. As it is not only the extreme parts going nuts, but that the spectrum is being shifted.
Most things can be explained with the bell-curve (red)
But that is not longer true, The polarization has reshaped this completely. It is more like the yellow curve nowadays.
People have been pushed by various means into the edges of this curve. Why? would go to far to name the reasons and everyone has a different opinion about.
The problem with the polarization is that it takes the compromise/consent meaning out of it. Nice catch phrase for this: You are either with us or against us. This is taking ANY compromise out of it and polarizing people even more!
Just can see it even here on the forum. Either - or. No real discourse just trowing stuff at each other.
And this just piles up till it will explode, one way or the other.
Another problem is that we as humans only see a perceived reality
This is no illness just how our brain works. We do filter things out. Facts will be ignored if they are out of the perceived reality. This way lies will be seen as the truth. And once you are stuck in there it is hard to get out.

The 10% you indicated is actually just a sign, not the cause.
IF we as a human race would really live a reality, this would not be there.
I will use some examples to illustrate this (not for showing support one way or the other, just the best examples IMHO)
Let's get back to Capitalism.
Yeah been there already done and failed.
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist[/url])

Globalization:
Been there already done and failed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_industrialisation

planned economy/socialism
Been there already done and failed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_economy

You could nitpick WHY they failed or if they really apply. Which is not the point. The main reason was that none of those system really fits with our human shortcomings.
And the biggest shortcoming is also an instinct, to get violent if we do not get it our way. As adults we shall be able to overcome this, but again, the polarization did reduce the peoples ability to really see reality as in reality.

Prior it was only the extreme parts of the bell curve doing this, but as the curve has been reshaped.......I let you do the thinking.
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Goodaltgamer: Your assumption is is a little bit too much based on what we had like in Germany.UK.Europe, extreme groups staging assaults in a way to vent anger or rebel (correct me if I am wrong ;)).
But what I was speculation about is far worse. As it is not only the extreme parts going nuts, but that the spectrum is being shifted.
Most things can be explained with the bell-curve (red)
But that is not longer true, The polarization has reshaped this completely. It is more like the yellow curve nowadays.
People have been pushed by various means into the edges of this curve. Why? would go to far to name the reasons and everyone has a different opinion about.
The problem with the polarization is that it takes the compromise/consent meaning out of it. Nice catch phrase for this: You are either with us or against us. This is taking ANY compromise out of it and polarizing people even more!
Just can see it even here on the forum. Either - or. No real discourse just trowing stuff at each other.
And this just piles up till it will explode, one way or the other.
Another problem is that we as humans only see a perceived reality
This is no illness just how our brain works. We do filter things out. Facts will be ignored if they are out of the perceived reality. This way lies will be seen as the truth. And once you are stuck in there it is hard to get out.
That's the long version of exactly what I meant with "us or them"-mentality.
Humans are just apes with high-tech sticks after all.

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Goodaltgamer: The 10% you indicated is actually just a sign, not the cause.
IF we as a human race would really live a reality, this would not be there.
I will use some examples to illustrate this (not for showing support one way or the other, just the best examples IMHO)
Let's get back to Capitalism.
Yeah been there already done and failed.
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist[/url])

Globalization:
Been there already done and failed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_industrialisation

planned economy/socialism
Been there already done and failed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_economy

You could nitpick WHY they failed or if they really apply. Which is not the point. The main reason was that none of those system really fits with our human shortcomings.
And the biggest shortcoming is also an instinct, to get violent if we do not get it our way. As adults we shall be able to overcome this, but again, the polarization did reduce the peoples ability to really see reality as in reality.

Prior it was only the extreme parts of the bell curve doing this, but as the curve has been reshaped.......I let you do the thinking.
Hence why I mentioned the extremely unlikely non authorative hippie revival as the likewise unlikely way out of those habits / shortcomings.

I just don't take the time anymore to spell all this out since it usually is either preaching to the choir or not being understood regardless of the effort. It's the same with philosophy. I prefer Lao-Tse to Kant since either you understand it with few words or usually not at all.
Post edited November 14, 2016 by Klumpen0815
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Klumpen0815: That's the long version of exactly what I meant with "us or them"-mentality.
Humans are just apes with high-tech sticks after all.

Hence why I mentioned the extremely unlikely non authorative hippie revival as the likewise unlikely way out of those habits / shortcomings.

I just don't take the time anymore to spell all this out since it usually is either preaching to the choir or not being understood regardless of the effort. It's the same with philosophy. I prefer Lao-Tse to Kant since either you understand it with few words or usually not at all.
I just took it the long way, as your remark could have been seen as taking a specific side ;)

You mean like this one, which I think fits quite nicely here ;)

Do the difficult things while they are easy and do the great things while they are small. A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.
can't stump the trump

;)
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Goodaltgamer: And the biggest shortcoming is also an instinct, to get violent if we do not get it our way. As adults we shall be able to overcome this,
As a general remark (not necessarly directed at you but you triggered my train of thoughts ^o^), I'm always perplex at the inherent thinking amongst some people that the majority of humans should reach kindness (or are even born "naturally" kind). It's like the classic sentence "History repeats itself" which when generally used only makes reference to WW2 and denies the History prior to the 20th century.

It's actually even more amusing as I'm receiving this week the French book edition of "Das sogenannte Böse: Zur Naturgeschichte der Aggression" by Konrad Lorenz. Naturally if some people are religious (in a monotheistic way) and think God created humans as an entity separated from nature then I would understand why they think like you. But for those who "believe" in humans as part of the natural world order then the notion of conflict is perfectly normal. Actually, extreme ecologism pushed to its boundaries leads to the conclusion that international population degrowth is better than the current exponential growth and as people won't get rational then the only issue is death (one way or another) until Nature finds its balance back.

So in a detached philosophical way, we don't have to care about being right or wrong in our actions and sentiments as we're just "puppets" of History and Nature (well, I think my future goal in life will be to become a sect leader ^o^)
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Dismember77777: We?
What, you think we don't care about who your leader is?
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SirPrimalform: I don't even.
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pearnon: ...have a point? The intellectual honesty to admit I was wrong? The decency to slink back into the shadows after being caught out spreading misinformation and glossing over actual attacks being perpetrated?

Indeed you don't. And shame on you for that, because that means you're a mendacious zealot instead of a useful idiot who doesn't know any better.
Have the energy to engage with you.
Post edited November 15, 2016 by SirPrimalform
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SirPrimalform: What, you think we don't care about who your leader is?
Who's the daddy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByAuEvnPULM
Post edited November 15, 2016 by TARFU
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SirPrimalform: What, you think we don't care about who your leader is?
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TARFU: Who's the daddy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByAuEvnPULM
Danny John-Jules obviously.