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Carradice: As Vitek says, the problem with what that player wrote has been exposed in very clear terms already. TGF has already asked not stop writing about sexual assaults and gender violence. People are free to not understanding things, or to play the contrarian. However, participating in a game involves agreeing to a social contract.
I agree with this bit 100%.

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Carradice: Being that vocal about considering that talk about the acts depicted to be OK or JUST A JOKE and how you do not have a problem at all with that, and how you do not want to have any kind of restriction about that kind of stuff appearing in games... despite all the concerns expressed by fellow players, then you seem to be totally missing the point of what engaging in a social activity is: You are simply saying that you are not adhering to a social contract that a sizeable portion of your prospective fellow players can live with, and that you wish that such kind of social contract is never to be adopted in future games. And people should cope with that, apparently.
I think you misread my intent/meaning a bit......I think we should all try to get along and respect one another, and I never said I don't want to have any restriction on said topics in these games.

Imo if people are reasonable and do their best(in their opinion) to work along with the games, then that should be good enough for all involved and to me seems like a fair compromise.

Sound good?

(Also a question: If Cadaver had apologized BUT said he might rarely post similar things possibly in future games[not just on that topic but others], would you respect that decision if he did such rarely and civilly?)
Post edited June 10, 2020 by GameRager
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JoeSapphire: Also, I don't think Cadaver owes anyone an apology.

Or to put it another way, I don't think anyone should feel like Cadaver owes them an apology.

It's clear that he never set out to cause harm, everybody who has wanted it has had their voice heard on the subject.
I'm not sure there's anybody been involved who can say that their behaviour has been without fault.

Don't withhold yourself peace because you think someone else owes you reparation.
If you want someone to know that you feel you've done them wrong and want them to feel better, apologise.
This.....well said(the entire post as well, not just this bit).

(Also I love and admire how you try to bring peace to the game and thread like this)
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FlockeSchnee: I was really hoping this discussion would have been long dead by now. This whole game is about violence.
Hello there.

I disagree profoundly with this. The whole game is about finding out who lies, if you are town, or getting away with your lies, if you are scum, and a few other things in between. Plus, management of scarce resources and some problem solving. The violence is in the vocabulary. One player can be designated by their peers to leave the active roster. Another can be chosen by scum to the same effect. Where is the violence in that? Only in the vocabulary and in the way that some might choose to take it.


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FlockeSchnee: [...]all I see is people putting me in the "not a man"-category, which to them seems to translate as "special care case". Can we finally let this die now please. (If you really must reply to this very post of mine, my chat is open. But please don't expect me to reply in return. I'd really prefer to just have this thing die for good.)
About the "special care case", no idea whatsoever about what you are talking about, or who are you pointing at. Hopefully you are not trying to express that the fact of belonging to this or that gender allows someone to dictate how others should feel about things, when and if they can talk about it and so on.


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FlockeSchnee: Can we finally let this die now please.
It had.
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GameRager: ...
GR, why do you keep beating a dead horse? If people are asking you to pretty please stop doing something that they find obnoxious, they explain clearly why is it so, and you reply that you will keep doing so regardless of their feelings, the social contract is broken.

Example. A guy enter a mosque and they ask you to take off your shoes. He replies that you are not leaving your shoes. Then they explain why they are requiring himto remove your shoes. Apparently he did not know that requisite. Then, after they respectfully let him know, he retorts that nevertheless he will enter with his shoes on now and them, as it suits his whim. By doing so, he is denying the others the basic respect that they are asking from him, and that they are offering to him, in case he was getting the inadverted harm. The social contract for peaceful convivence is broken. The guy is making an ass of himself.

Of course you know all this, but you like controversy.
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FlockeSchnee: I was really hoping this discussion would have been long dead by now.
I thought it was...
welp, i just had to reinstall ff so i could log back in to gog!

every time i went to log in anywhere, join a steam group etc, ff crashed. and it only did it since i updated to ff77 today, so hopefully it is fixed now. now i need to go and add more games to my wishlist.

also, my throat hurts. :(
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Carradice: As Vitek says, the problem with what that player wrote has been exposed in very clear terms already. TGF has already asked not stop writing about sexual assaults and gender violence. People are free to not understanding things, or to play the contrarian. However, participating in a game involves agreeing to a social contract.
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GameRager: I agree with this bit 100%.

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Carradice: Being that vocal about considering that talk about the acts depicted to be OK or JUST A JOKE and how you do not have a problem at all with that, and how you do not want to have any kind of restriction about that kind of stuff appearing in games... despite all the concerns expressed by fellow players, then you seem to be totally missing the point of what engaging in a social activity is: You are simply saying that you are not adhering to a social contract that a sizeable portion of your prospective fellow players can live with, and that you wish that such kind of social contract is never to be adopted in future games. And people should cope with that, apparently.
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GameRager: I think you misread my intent/meaning a bit......I think we should all try to get along and respect one another, and I never said I don't want to have any restriction on said topics in these games.

Imo if people are reasonable and do their best(in their opinion) to work along with the games, then that should be good enough for all involved and to me seems like a fair compromise.

Sound good?

(Also a question: If Cadaver had apologized BUT said he might rarely post similar things possibly in future games[not just on that topic but others], would you respect that decision if he did such rarely and civilly?)
Please just let it go, you continually brining it up over and over in this thread serves no purpose. If you want to message someone via chat do that. I will not answer or recognize anymore posts in this thread on the subject because all we are doing is repeating the whole conversation over and over and that accomplished nothing.
To all....no need to reply to any of this....I just wanted to muse one last time before dropping this for good. After this I will be leaving the topic to rest.

That said:
=============================================

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Carradice: GR, why do you keep beating a dead horse?
Sorry for that....I felt some people got what I said or meant wrong and wanted to set the record straight(also moderate OCD on such details) and have my words/stances represented correctly, and also wanted to muse on some of what was said by others and some things I noticed. I will be dropping it after this.

(You may feel free to reply back via PM[if you want to reply] so we can keep it out of the thread)

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Carradice: If people are asking you to pretty please stop doing something that they find obnoxious, they explain clearly why is it so, and you reply that you will keep doing so regardless of their feelings, the social contract is broken.
I think people should show a modicum of civility(within reason) in such games and elsewhere, and do their best to that end, and if that's not good enough for others than imo those others should just have to live with that**.

(**=I think what I suggested is more than fair, and if people want to disagree that's fine)
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Carradice: Of course you know all this, but you like controversy.
No I don't....I have my own concerns, which I expressed(or tried to) as civilly as possible.

Look, I know this issue is important for you....that said, I ask you to please go back and try to read what I wrote carefully. You will see I was very reasonable throughout and we have been more or less on the same page throughout all of this.

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trentonlf: Please just let it go, you continually brining it up over and over in this thread serves no purpose. If you want to message someone via chat do that. I will not answer or recognize anymore posts in this thread on the subject because all we are doing is repeating the whole conversation over and over and that accomplished nothing.
Agreed...it is now serving little real purpose, so i'm done on this topic(at least in the thread...will talk via PMs if anyone wants to).
Post edited June 11, 2020 by GameRager
77.0.1 seems to have fixed it
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Microfish_1: 77.0.1 seems to have fixed it
Nice. I use FF too sometimes to log into GOG. Never had this problem that you mention. Maybe there might be something else that mixes up with the way that FF is working on your machine?
idk, but chrome doesn't reliably open so it is more of an emergency browser than a trusted friend. :D

I've had a similar issue once in the past (sadly, I've forogtten the deets) but it was fixed by overwriting the EXE with a new install. (Despite trying this process numerous times, chrome still doesn't work reliably, howsomever).
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Microfish_1: also, my throat hurts. :(
I told you to STOP swallowing swords whole, mate.
anyone know why the quickpost feature of either barefoot or adalia essentials only seems to work on some topics but not on others?
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Carradice: I told you to STOP swallowing swords whole, mate.
lolololo...that video, though...
yeah, i've never swallowed a sword!
Post edited June 11, 2020 by Microfish_1
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Microfish_1: idk, but chrome doesn't reliably open so it is more of an emergency browser than a trusted friend. :D

I've had a similar issue once in the past (sadly, I've forogtten the deets) but it was fixed by overwriting the EXE with a new install. (Despite trying this process numerous times, chrome still doesn't work reliably, howsomever).
Well, at least the problem is solved for now. Surely it is not a problem with the security settings, or the firewall, or something else? I do not think that there is interference between the two navigators.

About the sore throat, propoleum tablets work fine and are less aggressive with your gut flora than synthetic options like Strepsils. About lizipaina, lidocaina, the less drugs you take, the better. Natural remedies appear to be free of that risk. Hot liquids, you know the drill.
Post edited June 11, 2020 by Carradice
yup, hot tea with honey is a friend when my throat is sore, in the meantime, i need to choke down all the vitamin c that i can stomach, and keep taking my Vit D pills regularly.
my throat also only hurts when i swallow, but has done it enough that i'm constantly aware of a niggling feeling of unwell-ness. i did go out sunday, but i doubt that i was aorund anyone who was sick.