It's very important to indicate a lack of sarcasm otherwise people will assume you're not being serious.

EDIT: Whoops. :-|

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I went with the Supernatural theme as it's my all time favorite TV Show.

Great. I was rooting for Supernatural.
Because I'm more interested in the bomb and HP settings and just wouldn't be able to participate in the next game anyway. :)
(Sorry, not a fan of SN. Never watched the series)

Hopefully by the time you start a new game in the other settings I will finally be available to play.

lol

Well, while we're waiting, let's discuss whether Loud Ninja is a bastard role. Just brining it out since it's a role that Joe included in his previous game, and it was called bastard by at least three people already (HSL, blotunga, Lift), though blotunga appears to have been under a false assumption as to what Loud actually does.

So for reference:
_Ninja: gives a negative result to an investigation by Tracker, Watcher or similar
_Loud: informs the target of the action that they've been targetted (note: Joe's version of Loud simply informed me that I was targetted, without specifying by whom; the wiki version mentions that the target is informed who targetted them).

So, first of all, if the flavour here makes this combination more bastard (because ninjas aren't loud), then let's just substitue Stinky for Loud.

Now, for me a bastard modifier is one which affects the role's "active ingredient" so to speak. So an Insane Cop or a Naive Doctor would bastard because those modifiers affect what actually defines the role. An Insane Cop can't investigate properly, a Naive Doctor cannot protect. In Ninja's case however, the Stinky/Loud modifier has absolutely no effect on being Tracked/Watched/Followed... etc which is what defines a Ninja. A Ninja doesn't become less of a Ninja just because he's Stinky/Loud.

Another reason a role could be bastard is if it's severly overpowered or underpowered (e.g. Cult Leader, Jester). A Stinky/Loud Ninja is neither. In most cases the modifier won't have any effect at all, since the target will die anyway. It only comes into effect if the target survives (which doesn't happen often), and even then the target is only informed that they were targetted. Even if they were informed who targetted them, it doesn't give them any overpowered info. Quite the opposite: they're not sure if they were targetted by a Town PR so might want to be quiet so as not to out that PR to mafia.

Ergo my conclusion is:
Stinky/Loud Ninja is NOT a bastard role if the user is told they are Stinky/Loud. It makes for a nice role that's slightly more powerful than a Mafia Goon, while at the same time carries a small risk, so it's up to Mafia to determine whether they want to use him or not.

Which brings me to my next point. A bastard element can also be present if the mod lies in an unexpected way (as opposed to Godfather/Miller etc. which are kind of expected in GOG Mafia games). For example by telling a Mafia team that X is part of it, while in reality X is part of a secret Lover team.
Now, Joe didn't tell the Ninja that he had a Loud modifier, which could be considered bastard to a degree. However this still doesn't make Loud Ninja bastard. The bastardness here comes from the fact that it was hidden, not from the Loud-Ninja combination. So a (hidden)Loud Goon, or even a (hidden)Loud Cop or Doctor or whatever would be just as bastard as a (hidden)Loud Ninja.

Thoughts?

I agree :-| - and the bastardness of a role is sensitive to context too.

A (paranoid) cop is a bastard role, but there is a set-up built around the town knowing that they have a Cop, a (Insane) Cop, a (Paranoid) Cop and a (Naïve) Cop. In this instance the role is not bastard, because the town knows what to expect.

If a mod had given the players a list of roles and a list of qualifiers, and then used ones that weren't on the list, that would be bastard. If a mod told the players that there would be no hidden qualifiers, or never mentioned the concept of hidden qualifiers, and then included hidden qualifiers that would bastard.

But in a game that has had a list of roles including "NINJA" and a list of qualifiers including "LOUD" and a warning that hidden qualifiers are included in the game, the role (LOUD) NINJA can hardly be thought of as unfair, surely?

(The (NAIVE) TYRANNOSAUR was much crueller ;p)

If I'm a bastard mod for anything it's for continually changing the format of roles so that no-one knows what's going on at the beginning of my games!

Basically in agreement with ZFR there, a loud/stinky ninja isn't in itself a bastard role, but hidden qualifiers are a bit bastard unless there's something to indicate that there's a hidden qualifier (even if not what it is). :-|

Incidentally, stinky/loud ninja is a perfect description of one of my cats.

I want a bump in there

Need a bumpo in the current game

Bump?

not necessary anymore

Is the forum layout broken for anyone else?

Seems ok to me

Sometimes the page looks screwy. A reload usually fixes it for me.

bump anybody?

I'm ok, thanks.