Harsh
Harsher (but at least you get some fresh air)

Harsh, not "to the pain" harsh but still.

And behind door number four is "Prisoner of war", which is fairly forward thinking for a 7th century text.

The problem all religions face is taking ancient documents, which have steadfast rules and ideals, and applying them into a different context.

If we would take some things from the old testament of the bible for comparison ... okay, I won't think further, promise.

I think most of the ISIS terrorists aren't really religious. They only use the religion to legimitate their behaviour for themselfes and ease their minds. That's a normal psycholgical behaviour of criminals.

What most people oversee is that the ISIS is not only a small terrorist group, which only kill for their religion. They are huge and organized like a real state. In my opinion the intention of their leaders it's all about political power. They want to establish and widen the borders of their own state. They only use the religion to legimitate their behaviour. That's comparable with the christian crusades in the medieval period.
Religion always has been misused for political intentions, whatever religion you look at.

Back and forth we go. Here's the quote AGAIN.

"Allah tells us that those who migrate for the sake of Allah, seeking to earn His pleasure and that which is with Him, leaving behind their homelands, families and friends, leaving their countries for the sake of Allah and His Messenger to support His religion, then they are killed, i.e., in Jihad, or they die, i.e., they pass away without being involved in fighting, they will have earned an immense reward....... "

[url=https://quran.com/52:24]https://quran.com/52:24[/url]
"There will circulate among them [servant] boys [especially] for them, as if they were pearls well-protected."

Its also incredibly easy to pick any one of those violent incidents and pop them into google to confirm.

&
What religion CURRENTLY has a problem with violent acts in the name of their deity?

Hint: It isn't Christianity.

Except we see this from numerous variants of Islamic followers in countries across the globe all using their religious text in acts of violence.

We're in the here and now and the Bible isn't the issue. Also... small terrorist group that is huge and organized. Ok.

Also, something that is left out of most history books is that the Crusades were in response to Islamic aggression.

Now, a comparison is fair in the sense that Crusaders were absolved of all sins if they partook in the Crusades much the way Jihadis are promised a place in heaven for martyrdom. This constant comparison of modern Islam with modern Christianity is beyond ignorant.

"169. But do not think of those that have been slain in God’s cause a dead. Nay, they are alive! With their Sustainer have they their sustenance,"

You make your point clear, but the problem is: The generalized speaking here about "monsters" (link) for example or perhaps "beasts", "barbarians" etc.. Logical combination: People read some generalized arguments here, even if this is not meant that way ... what next? Do you think they'll go out without any prejudices? Or is there the risk higher that some innocent individuals are hunted down just because they' re following the wrong religion in the view of others? Or even though they look "like" this? That's the point I'm talking about all the time and I'm here to remind that this can and also will happen if we are going further with this generalization. As I've said: Helping for reformation, helping for liberal thoughts and more secularism for everyone.

Yes, and do point out where it mentions anything at all about proselytising? Or do we have to go YET AGAIN? I'm not quite sure at this point whether this is some issue with your reading comprehension, or whether you're just pushing this on because you don't want to admit wrongness. Regardless of all these extra brackets in these translations, how exactly does this correspond to what you were talking about? Or is this again an example of you reading into it something you want so that it supports your view?

So easy that they could've done it themselves. Odd they don't.
And are you seriously suggesting that other religions don't have violent acts in the name of their deity right now?
Or are you going to start playing a numbers game "9 is nothing, I gave you an example with 12!"

If someone engages in monstrous behavior than I'm going to call them a monster. Dragging boys off to be raped or running a truck through a Christmas celebration are monstrous acts.


Prejudices are natural and everyone has them. I'm not going to act like I'm speaking to toddlers when I'm assuming the average GOGger is at least in their 20s.


Couldn't agree more about seeking reformation, but our western leaders are not doing that. They're letting these people in by the droves and we are paying with our lives because it is politically incorrect to look at their culture and views.


This is getting tiresome.
"leaving their countries for the sake of Allah and His Messenger to support His religion"


You wanted an example of boy toys being worked into the Quran.


The list looks a bit neater without it... and just look at the damned list.


FFS... get this through your head, each and every one of you.

NO OTHER RELIGION HAS IT IN THE QUANTITY THAT ISLAM DOES.

It is an epidemic in Islam. In all other religions it is a triviality in comparison.

"The numbers game".

When the numbers show a trend we need to look at it and figure out why that is. Or we stick our heads in the sand and say, "yeah, 20,000 people died to Islamic terror this year... BUT 9 PEOPLE WERE KILLED LAST YEAR BY CHRISTIANS SO IT'S NOT JUST ISLAM".

Numbers game. I'd laugh it wasn't so depressing.

I'll take this for the first: You are living in the US, correct? So let's under view: How many people called "refugees" were taken in the last year for example? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War#2015

Looking back: 16,218 in numbers from wikipedia for the US.
So far so good: Most thing is ... we in Europe have a litlle bit more people, but when we want really help, I mean REALLY. The people have to get fair conditions, including the refugees and also the helping countries / states. So compared to 110,333 people in sweden, is this fair? And it's all about political correctness: Otherwise we will never be able to have equality for every human being! And will this be better under "Mr. President-Elected" Donald Trump? I don't think, because he showed up many, many prejudices. So we'll have also more problems about unfair numbers for countries in Europe. Nice reading here about the "Eurotards" for example. I know this was not from you, but double standards are not the best arguments within a discussion. And this one here is exactly full with!

And just to repeat: I'm from Germany and I also think that adult people could think a little bit further. Taking this in account and looking to some actors like PEGIDA, no sir: The reality is far more worse! That's it: People are watching nonsense like "Big Brother" for example and they are adults. They could read about complex politics and problems behind globalization. But what do they really do? Walking with demagogy. The easiest solution is from my experience the worst one. But yes: They are adults! ;-)

These refugees should only be taken in by fellow Islamic countries. We owe these people nothing. That's "Fair". You're pointing out that the US taking in only 16,000 compared to say, Sweden with 110,000? It should be 0 in both cases.

Also, we'll never have equality with Islam. Not until reformations.

We are going round in circles because you just don't want to listen and stay at your "I have nothing to do with"-arguments. And the reformation will start from their own? Until then: Big wall around islam countries, and we are done?

How current is CURRENT?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

Over 3'500 dead over half civilians.

Had the UK not been a developed nation with strict gun control, that number would have been many times higher.

Wrong. In fact it's the American Government who destabilized the Middle East by invading Iraq and intervening in and [url=http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/07/13/what-is-going-on-in-syria.html]Syria.
ISIS wouldn't even exist if Bush jr. had kept his fingers from Iraq because many ISIS Members were once in the Iraqi military or secret service.
And when one consider that refugees are used as weapons to weaken countries then one could come to the conclusion that the American establishment even makes war against Europe, the vassal of the American Empire.
According to causative principle and if the world would be fair, Europe would send all refugees directly to the White House and the Pentagon with best regards...

Edit.
Added jr. to Bush although his father wasn't any better.

So you're just going to keep repeating the same specific translation to a strenuous connection to what you want? Ignoring the surrounding text and other translations?
So it is the second one, then.

@_@ yes, because that is exactly what you quoted.

Yes, again, because "neatness" is important @_@

Yes, only 9 and no more, EXACTLY ONLY 9, compared to 20,000 according to unsourceable unreferenceable lists.
And me pointing it out like that would be considered facetious. This is why I don't care to engage with people like that. It serves no purpose, there is no interest in actual facts, just the opinion they already formed.


This is such a fruitful discussion!

Yes we are in the here and now but what I wanted to say is, that the misuse of religion is a part of human history and will always be.

Examples for nowadays:

Scientology --> profit
Rastafari --> legally smoking mariuhana
ISIS --> establishing their own state, political power

The religion in these cases is misused as a kind of a tool of rich an wealthy peolpe, to control their subjects and sustain their power.

You can't say that a holy scripture is evil per se. It's more about how it is used and interpreted by people.

In about every known case from recruited ISIS warriors in Germany they came from poor homes, had no life perspective and nothing to loose. The ISIS gives them one by saying: "You can have your revenge on society that threatened you bad. And you are legitimated by Allah.". I don't think that people who never had something to do with religion before, were turned into absolute believers. They can scream their religious text as much as they want but I don't believe them. The case that the ISIS can recruit people here in Europe for their purposes is in my opinion more of a social problem, than a religious.