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General discussionduke nukem character in todays climate(169 posts)(169 posts)
(169 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 17, 2018
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RWarehall: Maybe poorly worded on my part. The point being that there is greater publicity, more sales potential for a game called Duke Nukem because of it's previous success as a franchise. Such a game would sell additional copies on name alone.
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LootHunter: No. I really don't believe that "Duke Nukem" name will sell games on its own. It will attract attention, yes. But most Duke Nukem fans are "old school" players, and they (me included) are rather picky. We won't run to buy the game simply because of familiar name on it. Quality matters more than brand, especially after so many failures with different franchises.
This is very true. After years of companies trying to sell movies and games based on prior franchises being done so mind boggingly poorly, media based on a prior franchise actually has to work harder to interest me than a new one. I haven't even bothered to look into the last transformers, star trek or star wars movies because I know they're going to be garbage. The robocop and ghostbuster remakes are just embarassing. The new doom game is supposed to be good but I have no interest in it, it's not going to be as good as the first one was for the time. Even the system shock remake that was going around doesn't interest me, and system shock 2 is one of my favorite games. They're all relying on the success of the past to some degree instead of on their own merits, and that makes me very wary of them. A new duke nukem would have to work very hard to catch my interest, as it would more than likely just be a dull generic shooter.
Posted June 17, 2018
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fronzelneekburm: We used to have containment threads for that. We had the GamerGate thread for all your "politics in gaming"-related shitposting needs and we had the InfoWars thread for more general political shitposting.
I remember those days, wasn't that long ago.. From my perspective anyway ; )

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mike_cesara: btw, can anyone recommend something in the mood of Duke, Shadow Warrior? I'm not really a fan of Serious Sam.
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LootHunter: Shadow the Hedgehog :P
Never heard to be honest. I still have a PS2, might give it a try if I find a game somewhere on a garage sale.

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fronzelneekburm: Shogo is pretty gud. It has that Duke-ish mixture of fast-paced shooting and wacky humor. Also, the level design feels a lot like Duke3D (sort of semi-realistic environments), compared to Serious Sam's large, less tightly-designed levels
Still have a hard copy of Shogo and the game is on my gog shelf already. Thanks for reminding me!
Posted June 18, 2018
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LootHunter: Shadow the Hedgehog :P
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mike_cesara: Never heard to be honest. I still have a PS2, might give it a try if I find a game somewhere on a garage sale.
I was mainly joking, since StH is fast pace platformer/TPS. But it has indeed some common elements with Duke Nukem and Shadow Warrior games like shooting hordes of alliens and bad-ass (anti)hero.
Post edited June 18, 2018 by LootHunter
Posted June 18, 2018
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Posted June 18, 2018
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dtgreene: How about making health regen the effect of a powerup, rather than something automatic?

Alternatively, how about having health regen on the easiest difficulty, but not on other difficulties? (Of coures, this requires there to be a difficulty selection.)
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fronzelneekburm: Well, let's put it this way: Health regen simply doesn't work in a Duke Nukem game. A proper Duke Nukem game would ideally revolve around nonstop action. Health regen, on the other hand, is a hold over from cover-based shooters, which are the exact opposite: Get shot, hide behind cover, wait for your health to replenish, wait for the enemy NPC to poke its head out, shoot the enemy, move to your next cover, get shot, rinse and repeat. I find this kind of gameplay excruciatingly boring. The game literally stands in the way of its own action setpieces.

Since we're kinda talking about Duke Nukem's character in this thread, I also think that health regen completely runs counter to his over-the-top action hero persona. The Duke Nukem of yore would enter a room guns blazing, drop a one-liner once the room is cleared and continue on to the next room. He doesn't strike me as the kind to hide behind cover whenever he encounters an enemy.

The devs can leave medkits all over the place, they can make it so easy you're playing it in de facto godmode, but cover mechanics (which health regen definitely is) are the absolute antithesis to what I'd like to see in a Duke Nukem game. Hiding behind cover isn't fun. Blowing shit up is.
Ironically, Duke3D already had regenerating health...in any level with a faucet or a lavatory.
Posted June 18, 2018
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Erpy: Ironically, Duke3D already had regenerating health...in any level with a faucet or a lavatory.
That's not regenerating health though. Regenerating health refers to a very specific thing.

Quote: "Regenerating health is a gameplay mechanic which automatically refills the players health bar after successfully escaping damage for a set amount of time."

Read that last part again: health regen automatically refills the players health bar after successfully escaping damage for a set amount of time.

Do the faucets or lavatories in Duke3D work like that? No, they don't.
Posted June 18, 2018
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mike_cesara: Never heard to be honest. I still have a PS2, might give it a try if I find a game somewhere on a garage sale.
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LootHunter: I was mainly joking, since StH is fast pace platformer/TPS. But it has indeed some common elements with Duke Nukem and Shadow Warrior games like shooting hordes of alliens and bad-ass (anti)hero.
I thought so. Still the game may be interesting.
And yes, I'm mainly interested in badass protagonists ; ) Postal and Hatred including ; p
Posted June 18, 2018
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dtgreene: How about making health regen the effect of a powerup, rather than something automatic?

Alternatively, how about having health regen on the easiest difficulty, but not on other difficulties? (Of coures, this requires there to be a difficulty selection.)
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fronzelneekburm: Well, let's put it this way: Health regen simply doesn't work in a Duke Nukem game. A proper Duke Nukem game would ideally revolve around nonstop action. Health regen, on the other hand, is a hold over from cover-based shooters, which are the exact opposite: Get shot, hide behind cover, wait for your health to replenish, wait for the enemy NPC to poke its head out, shoot the enemy, move to your next cover, get shot, rinse and repeat. I find this kind of gameplay excruciatingly boring. The game literally stands in the way of its own action setpieces.

Since we're kinda talking about Duke Nukem's character in this thread, I also think that health regen completely runs counter to his over-the-top action hero persona. The Duke Nukem of yore would enter a room guns blazing, drop a one-liner once the room is cleared and continue on to the next room. He doesn't strike me as the kind to hide behind cover whenever he encounters an enemy.

The devs can leave medkits all over the place, they can make it so easy you're playing it in de facto godmode, but cover mechanics (which health regen definitely is) are the absolute antithesis to what I'd like to see in a Duke Nukem game. Hiding behind cover isn't fun. Blowing shit up is.
Here's an interesting thought:

Collecting a heath regen pick-up before a battle, particularly if the effect has a decent magnitude, may make it unnecessary for a decent player to have to stop to look for instant health items during the middle of combat, allowing the player to focus on actually killing the enemies while not taking too much damage (which would overwhelm the health regen). It also doesn't overly encourage hiding, because while that might be useful to heal a bit, if you do it too much, the pick-up will wear off. (You can also have other power-ups, like increased damage/defense/speed, that wear off if you wait too long.)

Edit: One thing to note: Intant health pick-ups can only heal damage taken before they're picked up, while health regen pick-ups don't have this drawback, and can heal damage taken after they're picked up (at least until they wear off).
Post edited June 18, 2018 by dtgreene
Posted June 18, 2018
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mike_cesara: Every other thread here turns out to be political. If we're going to kill them all, we can lock whole forum already.
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fronzelneekburm: We used to have containment threads for that. We had the GamerGate thread for all your "politics in gaming"-related shitposting needs and we had the InfoWars thread for more general political shitposting.

Unfortunately, prolonged exposure to those threads took their toll on some of the resident posters. And after these threads were locked, they had nowhere else to go. So they went ahead and shat their animosities into every other thread all over the forum.

My advice to linko would be to open these two threads again. Give those poor lost souls their old home back. There they shall shitpost to their hearts' content, away from the more "normal" (a relative term around these parts) forum participants.
I'm not getting involved with the main debate of this thread, but for the record, I believe this to be completely wrong. Even when both of those threads were open, we still had just as many if not more political threads compared to what we have now. Those didn't work as containment in the very least. What would make more sense would be opening a "politics" subforum and giving that its own special attention in terms of moderation.
Posted June 18, 2018
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fronzelneekburm: Well, let's put it this way: Health regen simply doesn't work in a Duke Nukem game. A proper Duke Nukem game would ideally revolve around nonstop action.
Would it, though?
The Duke Nukem persona might imply non-stop action, but what I remember mostly of the game (which admittedly had occasional hectic action bits), was a lot of isolated enemies (usually in groups of 1 to 4), hidden areas to explore and environments to interact with in goofy ways.
Post edited June 18, 2018 by babark
Posted June 18, 2018
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zeogold: Even when both of those threads were open, we still had just as many if not more political threads compared to what we have now.
True, but that probably had more to do with current events than with anything else. We had the refugee crisis, terrorist attacks in Europe every other day, the US elections, Brexit and so on and so forth and each of those topics had their own thread.

Whereas this year there have been few "noteworthy" events like that (except maybe Trump and Kim being BFFs now, which oddly enough doesn't have its own thread - but it's somehow understandable, considering how the mere mention of Trump sends some of the users here into a frothing rage).

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zeogold: Those didn't work as containment in the very least.
Yeah, they did. Because no matter how out of hand those threads got, at least the participants confined their trench warfare into those threads. For a time at least. Now it spread all over the forum. Even if gogmods were to enforce a strict "No politics!"-rule at this point, things would still go downhill. Because it's not the topics that are the problem, it's the participants.

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fronzelneekburm: Well, let's put it this way: Health regen simply doesn't work in a Duke Nukem game. A proper Duke Nukem game would ideally revolve around nonstop action.
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babark: Would it, though?
The Duke Nukem persona might imply non-stop action, but what I remember mostly of the game (which admittedly had occasional hectic action bits), was a lot of isolated enemies (usually in groups of 1 to 4), hidden areas to explore and environments to interact with in goofy ways.
Pray tell, how would cover mechanics/health regeneration benefit a Duke Nukem game?
Post edited June 18, 2018 by fronzelneekburm
Posted June 18, 2018
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babark: Would it, though?
The Duke Nukem persona might imply non-stop action, but what I remember mostly of the game (which admittedly had occasional hectic action bits), was a lot of isolated enemies (usually in groups of 1 to 4), hidden areas to explore and environments to interact with in goofy ways.
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fronzelneekburm: Pray tell, how would cover mechanics/health regeneration benefit a Duke Nukem game?
I didn't say they would, I was replying to your statement that "ideally a Duke Nukem game would revolve around non-stop action", which I don't think is true at all.

But since you asked, technically, health regeneration would be BETTER suited to non-stop action.
Here are two descriptions of game "experiences" a developer may want to convey:

1)
Secret areas to engage curious players with ammo, medkits and weapons, walls that can be destroyed to reveal rooms behind them, ventilation ducts that can be explored to reach hidden areas and alternate paths to unsuspecting enemies. Regularly placed groups of enemies with tense but usually short-lived battles, spiced up by the danger of running out of health if you don't get a medkit, and the feeling of being a bad-ass through strategic destruction of enemies.

2)
A sequence of rooms with enemy engagement set pieces, carefully and minutely designed to give the player the visceral thrill of blasting away hordes and hordes of baddies without disturbing the fast pace by having to worry about hunting down medkits between each battle.

Which do you feel fits Duke Nukem 3D (the game) better? Which do you feel would fit a "non-stop action" game better?
Posted June 18, 2018
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babark: Which do you feel fits Duke Nukem 3D (the game) better?
#1, although I think you're underselling the shooting featured in Duke3D quite a bit.

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babark: Which do you feel would fit a "non-stop action" game better?
#1
Unless you imply that finding secret areas, destroying walls, etc isn't an integral part of the action.

Do you exclusively define "non-stop action" as the Modern Warfare-school of FPS design that involves clubbing the player over the head with an unending series of scripted events? That's what your'e probably referring to in #2, although "visceral thrill" is pretty much the exact opposite of how I would describe my reaction this type of game (I went into some detail about this in my earlier reply to dtgreene). But then again, I'm in the minority, since these games sell exceedingly well.
Posted June 18, 2018
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fronzelneekburm: Unless you imply that finding secret areas, destroying walls, etc isn't an integral part of the action.

Do you exclusively define "non-stop action" as the Modern Warfare-school of FPS design that involves clubbing the player over the head with an unending series of scripted events? That's what your'e probably referring to in #2, although "visceral thrill" is pretty much the exact opposite of how I would describe my reaction this type of game (I went into some detail about this in my earlier reply to dtgreene). But then again, I'm in the minority, since these games sell exceedingly well.
I would certainly not call it "non-stop action", it is much slower paced.

And no, that's not my definition of "non-stop action". I was also including horde-based/arena or room based games like Painkiller or Quake or Serious Sam, which I don't think would suffer too much from going the health-regen path.
Posted June 18, 2018
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fronzelneekburm: My advice to linko would be to open these two threads again.
I don't at all see how we'd have less alt-right threads and less conversations derailed towards Selected Readings from the Encyclopedia of Past, Present and Prospective Future Evil Deeds Committed by the Secret Commarxocialist Collective of the Social Jewish Warriors (Appendix A, pages 13,034 to 15,074: Good Things That Will Never Happen Because These People Would Totally Criticise All That)™ if we reopen the worst threads the forum has ever seen, Mr. Poor Lost Soul. Some of the most unhinged hellhounds actually left the forum when those threads were closed, because the sole reason they were around was for the centralized stochastic terrorism.

I'm not in the business of "giving advice" to community managers, but I'd assume that they wouldn't take a knife to huge piles of runny shit vacuum sealed in plastic bags, thus liberating the contents out of pity for the eager consumers. That may be totally naive given the history of this forum, but here we are. Trust paid forward.
Post edited June 18, 2018 by Vainamoinen
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionduke nukem character in todays climate(169 posts)(169 posts)
(169 posts)