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General discussionDevotion is coming to GOG on Dec. 18th!(1322 posts)(1322 posts)
(1322 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 22, 2020
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spellshaper: Just requested refund for Cyberpunk, deleted my GOG library and uninstalled galaxy. I think we gave GOG enough time to handle this situation with dignity and from now on its on them.
The longer it is the more it takes to make things right. Being honest and dont lie could be enough and the beginging but its not enough now. I would never expect CDP to behave worse than Blizzard, Activision or EA especially on matter like this...
I completely agree with you friend, and am very frustrated by this situation. However it seems like there's no other storefronts that don't bend to China so what are we supposed to do? It seems like unless we quite gaming altogether we don't have any options. :(
Posted December 22, 2020
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exorio: GOG are not obliged to list the game in any way, it's their store, and it's their right to refuse to sell a game whatever the reason is
Pretty sure they had a contract with the dev obliging them to release the game before they decided to obey the Chinese dictator.

Also, it's customers' right to point out the unethical behavior of the company.

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exorio: So the cool kids don't use steam nowadays eh
Don't know about cool kids. I don't use Steam and don't care about Steam, and I don't care much about "platform" (what does that mean?) or whatever either, but I do care about scumbag DRM and refuse to run anything DRMed on my machine - and for games that's quite easy, since thanks to GOG, itch.io and similar stores there's much more good DRM-free games available than I'm able to play.

If the Chinese dictator has his way with GOG, that might change. So I oppose the dictator's influence on GOG. What's your reason for writing lengthy posts defending the dictator and his GOG lackeys?
Post edited December 22, 2020 by deesklo
Posted December 22, 2020
Any official statements or news on this one yet? CDPR has gone complete radio silent about everything and anything.
Posted December 22, 2020
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Turbo-Beaver: You do realize that social media in China is heavily controlled, right? There are as many as 300,000 people paid to post pro-government comments and content. It's estimated that there are 500,000,000 comments being made per year on that basis. There's also grassroots jingoism that is somewhat autonomous, so the controversy might have started this way. I tried to write about it in more detail in an earlier comment but the gist of it is that Internet opinions there have zero correlation to what "real" people actually think. It's just a tool to establish the illusion of consent.
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exorio: Oh come on those are just your assumptions. Yeah I admit I make assumption too; which is IMO it is highly unlikely the message come from any people who have no interest in videogames at all.
What are my assumptions? That there is Internet censorship in China? That Internet comments in China are just a pretense of having a discussion? What are you disagreeing with specifically?

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Turbo-Beaver: There are a lot of actual gamers in China who seem to have liked the game. After all, it's one of the few such games to depict Chinese culture, and doing so accurately. (There's also the supreme irony that a work of art promoting Chinese culture is being cancelled due to protests originating from China, of all places.)
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exorio: But there's no exact number ratio on how many liked the game or despise the game because of the hidden easter eggs right? Nobody went to china and ask the gamers there one by one what they think about the game.
There are overwhelmingly positive comments about the game from actual Chinese gamers in many places, for example on Steam:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1006510/discussions/0/

Nothing stops you from going there to check it on your own. The whole controversy was blown out of proportion for political reasons.

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Turbo-Beaver: The Devotion situation isn't purely a freedom-of-speech issue. Freedom of speech is a public-law concept (describing relations between an individual and the government). Relations between companies and individuals are regulated by private law. A company doesn't have an obligation to uphold freedom of speech on a private platform. Simply put, you have the right to say what you want but it doesn't imply that anybody has the obligation to listen, or to help you spread your message. (There is a good case that dominant Internet platforms should not be allowed to use this defense but no legal requirement as of now.)

But this example isn't even remotely similar. There is no objectionable content in the game, and it's considered to be high-quality, so there is no reasonable case against listing it.
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exorio: You're missing the most important point : GOG are not obliged to list the game in any way, it's their store, and it's their right to refuse to sell a game whatever the reason is
In fact I just wrote exactly the same, in different words (I marked now it in the original quote).

This is a tangential issue though because there is no objectionable content anymore, so there is nothing to object to.

In your example, did Marvell completely stop selling the whole comic after the offending part was removed? I don't think so. I think it went back on sale once that part was gone. Similarly, now that the offending part is gone from the game there is no reason why it shouldn't also be back on sale.

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Turbo-Beaver: The developers said it was a placeholder that they forgot to replace later.
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exorio: From what I see on the screenshots, the easter egg asset was quite well done, seems finished and it was consistent with the rest of art direction.
The message was written in seal script. That's a different way of writing Chinese characters used in the ancient times, which most people nowadays find difficult to read. You have to go out of your way to read what's written there. I'm not sure if they put it there by accident but I think it's plausible they might have forgotten to remove it later. There is a lot of leftover development content in all kinds of games (although sometimes it's left for other reasons). It might be true, or it might be an excuse; either way, it's immaterial now that it's gone.
Post edited December 22, 2020 by Turbo-Beaver
Posted December 22, 2020
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The difference is, facebook isn't own by the US government. Although you'll find quite a few people are not happy with facebook's censorship. I don't know what you hear in Chile, but in the US it's regularly discussed what to do about the power of the social media companies in connection to their censorship capabilities. After 2016, it was the left, and not long after (or really before, either) it was the right. While the left and the right really don't like each other, and have completely different visions, we all kind of agree that social media (the big ones like facebook, twitter, etc) has become comparably powerful to the media and any particular government. And, of course, governments are not happy that this strange beast gives microphones to people and, worse yet, can take selectively take them away on a whim. Doesn't matter if you like Trump or not, Twitter, twitch, and facebook have proven that they're more powerful than the united states president, which people often tout saying is "the most powerful office in the world" (which i've doubted for a long time, but we tangibly saw it happen). Imagine, now, one or more of those platforms choosing China over the US government. What might that look like? Would it be better or worse? Might you see why some people are a little perturbed by China making a power grab on GOG?
Posted December 22, 2020
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kohlrak: The difference is, facebook isn't own by the US government. Although you'll find quite a few people are not happy with facebook's censorship. I don't know what you hear in Chile, but in the US it's regularly discussed what to do about the power of the social media companies in connection to their censorship capabilities. After 2016, it was the left, and not long after (or really before, either) it was the right. While the left and the right really don't like each other, and have completely different visions, we all kind of agree that social media (the big ones like facebook, twitter, etc) has become comparably powerful to the media and any particular government. And, of course, governments are not happy that this strange beast gives microphones to people and, worse yet, can take selectively take them away on a whim. Doesn't matter if you like Trump or not, Twitter, twitch, and facebook have proven that they're more powerful than the united states president, which people often tout saying is "the most powerful office in the world" (which i've doubted for a long time, but we tangibly saw it happen). Imagine, now, one or more of those platforms choosing China over the US government. What might that look like? Would it be better or worse? Might you see why some people are a little perturbed by China making a power grab on GOG?
There's too many questions in your post but i'll keep it simple

the fact that you pretend that the us has a "left wing" is kinda amusing

and well, i'll tell you how it looks like from chile. one day you guys "ruled" us, now it's china. meet the new boss, same as the old boss. the problem here is that you're kind of on a metldown because america used to be important but now it isn't, and you guys are seriously approaching third world country levels now, in many aspects of your daily life. I mean, you care more about a silly videogame instead of a real life threatening situation like the water in flint michigan... i'll just say, welcome to the club.
Posted December 22, 2020
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Nobody is pretending anything (at least I'm not). It's just outside the scope of this discussion.

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The only person assuming anything here is you assuming that everybody else is from the US. GOG is based in Poland, a lot of the customers are from Europe. In this discussion the last participants were also from Indonesia, Russia, Brazil, and Israel.

Feels like you're just itching for an excuse to go on a tangent.
Posted December 22, 2020
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Turbo-Beaver: Nobody is pretending anything (at least I'm not). It's just outside the scope of this discussion.

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Turbo-Beaver:
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Turbo-Beaver: The only person assuming anything here is you assuming that everybody else is from the US. GOG is based in Poland, a lot of the customers are from Europe. In this discussion the last participants were also from Indonesia, Russia, Brazil, and Israel.

Feels like you're just itching for an excuse to go on a tangent.
i was answering to a person who pointed out my location with their own, mr santa claus island inhabitant
Posted December 22, 2020
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OK. I admit I didn't follow all of your discussion.

Merry Christmas!
Posted December 22, 2020
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B1tF1ghter: Do they EVER?
As far as I'm concerned they only react after half of their house has already been flooded with tsunami of sh*t.
They are becoming a living definition of "this is fine, fire in same room, meme".
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makaikishi: And now GOG's deleting posts again. Boy, they sure are active when it comes to deleting posts, huh?
I was about to say! Yeah, sure is weird that they have time for that, patching Cyberpunk, promoting the winter sale on twitter (always to Pooh memes and Devotion demands, of course), sending out discount newsletters and setting up giveaways but they just can't carve the time out to respond to this. Huh.
Posted December 22, 2020
I think that part of the staff on GOG got reprimanded for bringing up Devotion on Weibo and even accepting their request in the first place, and now no one in the team is touching it with a ten foot pole until someone high up tells them they have to and how.
Posted December 23, 2020
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USERNAME:kohlrak#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:943#Q&_^Q&Q#The difference is, facebook isn't own by the US government. Although you'll find quite a few people are not happy with facebook's censorship. I don't know what you hear in Chile, but in the US it's regularly discussed what to do about the power of the social media companies in connection to their censorship capabilities. After 2016, it was the left, and not long after (or really before, either) it was the right. While the left and the right really don't like each other, and have completely different visions, we all kind of agree that social media (the big ones like facebook, twitter, etc) has become comparably powerful to the media and any particular government. And, of course, governments are not happy that this strange beast gives microphones to people and, worse yet, can take selectively take them away on a whim. Doesn't matter if you like Trump or not, Twitter, twitch, and facebook have proven that they're more powerful than the united states president, which people often tout saying is "the most powerful office in the world" (which i've doubted for a long time, but we tangibly saw it happen). Imagine, now, one or more of those platforms choosing China over the US government. What might that look like? Would it be better or worse? Might you see why some people are a little perturbed by China making a power grab on GOG?#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:943#Q&_^Q&Q#
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I'm not even going to deny you're right to some degree. But, frankly, who would you rather have as a boss? The one who created the Wuhan Virus situation? Is it the one who oppresses a particular group of people based upon their race? Or, more on point, do you prefer the one who encouraged individual rights even where they weren't wanted, or do you prefer censorship even where it isn't wanted? Don't get me wrong, neither is going to be innocent of bloodshed, but which of the two is more likely to lead to more bloodshed?
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BitLiz: I think that part of the staff on GOG got reprimanded for bringing up Devotion on Weibo and even accepting their request in the first place, and now no one in the team is touching it with a ten foot pole until someone high up tells them they have to and how.
I doubt anyone other than someone high up approved of the game in the first place. I imagine GOG would have alot more games here if their PR people had anything to do with it.
Post edited December 23, 2020 by kohlrak
Posted December 23, 2020
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kohlrak: I'm not even going to deny you're right to some degree. But, frankly, who would you rather have as a boss? The one who created the Wuhan Virus situation? Is it the one who oppresses a particular group of people based upon their race? Or, more on point, do you prefer the one who encouraged individual rights even where they weren't wanted, or do you prefer censorship even where it isn't wanted? Don't get me wrong, neither is going to be innocent of bloodshed, but which of the two is more likely to lead to more bloodshed?
The americans are professionals at bloodshed, after all they have a school dedicated to teach how to do it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation

And they've proven time and time again that they can't be trusted to not manipulate things both domestically and internationally.

it literally makes no difference for us if the us or china rules the world. they are exactly the same. But everything is made in China, in fact, the computer you're using to write this was made in China. The USA lost the leadership of the world and will never recover it again. It's game over for you.
Posted December 23, 2020
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USERNAME:kohlrak#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:950#Q&_^Q&Q#I'm not even going to deny you're right to some degree. But, frankly, who would you rather have as a boss? The one who created the Wuhan Virus situation? Is it the one who oppresses a particular group of people based upon their race? Or, more on point, do you prefer the one who encouraged individual rights even where they weren't wanted, or do you prefer censorship even where it isn't wanted? Don't get me wrong, neither is going to be innocent of bloodshed, but which of the two is more likely to lead to more bloodshed?#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:950#Q&_^Q&Q#
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You're dodging the individual questions.
Posted December 23, 2020
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kohlrak: You're dodging the individual questions.
You're not facing the facts. I do not care if China or USA "rule" the world. Nothing will change for anyone outside of the USA. I'm afraid you're not getting it because you've never lived outside of your country.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionDevotion is coming to GOG on Dec. 18th!(1322 posts)(1322 posts)
(1322 posts)