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NoNewTaleToTell: Thanks! I never got into tabletop RPGs but I'm looking to change that I guess, at least get into reading the corebooks/lore books etc.

The Shadowrun games sure do like to punish you for daring to spend your cash on gear after the tutorial, it happened in Returns and just happened in Dragonfall. Not that I mind, mind you, it gives some incentive for a future playthrough. I do wonder if Hong Kong continues that trend though...
Not a problem. Figured I'd pass along what I know so at least you can try to get better deals, keep the wallet hemorrhaging to a bare minimum.

I can answer that right now - Yes. Yes they do. They hold back better stuff until later in the game rather than keeping it around but out of reach financially so you can at least try to budget for future purchases. And yes, it is extremely godsdamned irritating.
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CarrionCrow: Not a problem. Figured I'd pass along what I know so at least you can try to get better deals, keep the wallet hemorrhaging to a bare minimum.

I can answer that right now - Yes. Yes they do. They hold back better stuff until later in the game rather than keeping it around but out of reach financially so you can at least try to budget for future purchases. And yes, it is extremely godsdamned irritating.
I don't necessarily mind it keeping the good stuff hidden away until the later game (Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines did a similar thing) to be honest.

I just find it a bit irritating that they start you with cruddy gear, give you enough cash to get some decent starter equipment and then the very next mission you find out that you're forced to miss out on something (like a potential story bit) because you're a hundred bucks short, because gosh, silly you just HAD to pick up a spell that isn't completely useless, or something with an armor value above zero.

I don't mind missing out on things because my skills don't meet the requirements, that's fine and dandy for an RPG, zero issues there. I DO mind getting punished for buying starter gear haha.

Also why can't/won't your party mates make up the difference in cash?! Cheap bastards!
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NoNewTaleToTell: I don't necessarily mind it keeping the good stuff hidden away until the later game (Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines did a similar thing) to be honest.

I just find it a bit irritating that they start you with cruddy gear, give you enough cash to get some decent starter equipment and then the very next mission you find out that you're forced to miss out on something (like a potential story bit) because you're a hundred bucks short, because gosh, silly you just HAD to pick up a spell that isn't completely useless, or something with an armor value above zero.

I don't mind missing out on things because my skills don't meet the requirements, that's fine and dandy for an RPG, zero issues there. I DO mind getting punished for buying starter gear haha.

Also why can't/won't your party mates make up the difference in cash?! Cheap bastards!
Yeah...that's happened to me as well. Shadowrun has the groundwork laid, but they also have a ways to go in a number of areas. The economy is one of those.

I hope they're ready for some major revamping when the time comes. Returns is fine as a first effort, Dragonfall is good at building on that and expanding, but Hong Kong feels like a rehashed version of Dragonfall in its "do missions to make money for some big goal you've been dragged into, talking to every person in town on the side" formula.
Getting the feeling they jumped out there with stuff to do with dragons too soon. Dragons are some of the biggest, most powerful entities in the world of Shadowrun. Once you've broken those out, it gets hard to make things that stack up on the threat scale.
And that's not even counting Shadowrun Returns' antagonists. Those things are also portrayed as extremely, massively dangerous, to the point that governments or corporations will go to massive lengths to deal with them.
But what do they give you? A special gun, two anonymous goons with no personality and special guns, and a fuckwit in clown makeup who also gets a special gun. That he can barely hit with. That's a world saving team if ever I've seen one.

And no, your teammates aren't going to help. They'll just sit there like they spent their last five dollars at the convenience store while you pay for everything. You should hang onto your toilet paper armor, use your "buzz of the mosquito" spell on heavily armed assailants at every opportunity, occasionally shoot at them with your Nerf gun, and be grateful!!!
Post edited October 07, 2015 by CarrionCrow
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CarrionCrow: Words...
Yeah the economy can definitely be improved. In Returns I was only low on funds once and that was in the early game after buying starter gear (go figure). After that I was swimming in cash, to be fair I didn't buy any med stuff or the bio parts and I skipped the next to last armor upgrade in favor of waiting a mission and getting the end game armor.

How do you feel that they're handling the lore as a whole? Apparently the much vaunted decker and the clown are previously established characters in the universe and are supposed to actually be darn near demigods but end up being completely useless.

Well, I'm definitely happy that this team is far less useless than the unique characters in Returns, that's an improvement worth celebrating. You were right about Glory, with that AP+1 thing of hers, she's actually a monster in melee.

Edit: Aaaand it just corrupted my quick save. Fun.
Post edited October 07, 2015 by NoNewTaleToTell
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NoNewTaleToTell: Yeah the economy can definitely be improved. In Returns I was only low on funds once and that was in the early game after buying starter gear (go figure). After that I was swimming in cash, to be fair I didn't buy any med stuff or the bio parts and I skipped the next to last armor upgrade in favor of waiting a mission and getting the end game armor.

How do you feel that they're handling the lore as a whole? Apparently the much vaunted decker and the clown are previously established characters in the universe and are supposed to actually be darn near demigods but end up being completely useless.

Well, I'm definitely happy that this team is far less useless than the unique characters in Returns, that's an improvement worth celebrating. You were right about Glory, with that AP+1 thing of hers, she's actually a monster in melee.
Here's the thing. In Shadowrun, once that initial barrier of trust has been passed, the vendors aren't going to give two shits about withholding things from you. They're black marketeers, weapon smugglers, back-alley doctors. They aren't going to say that you can't have certain things when you've got the money to pay for them. Not to mention, some places would possibly trade goods for services. Criminals without combat skills tend to have use for criminals with those combat skills. Makes the whole staying in business thing easier when potential robbers know they'll be killed in the attempt. (Assuming the merchants don't just have your party kill some people to set the right "don't fuck with me" mood.)
But the designers either didn't consider any of that, or wanted to keep things very simplistic.

The lore seems all right in and of itself on a larger scale. How it gets executed in the context of the game is a bit of a different story. The antagonists from Shadowrun Returns are supposed to be horrible, terrifying, intensely bad shit.
Weapons of mass destruction are used at one point to contain them. They don't work.

And the thing with the dragons. It just doesn't fit. There's no reason for run of the mill shadowrunners to be going up against them, unless they're suicidal. Dragons in Shadowrun aren't like D&D dragons, where you can run into much, much smaller ones. Every single dragon in Shadowrun is bad news if a character pisses them off.

As for the supposed legendary characters, that's part of what I mean by the execution being bad. They're legendary in the pen and paper source material. They're total fuckups in the game, their shittiness made that much worse by people proclaiming how great they're supposed to be, but aren't. Ultimately, they feel like shoehorned fan service.

Yes, they're much better overall. (Aside from Dietrich. He sucks ass all day long, generally speaking. Use his throwing knives in a big fight if you want a laugh or you're feeling masochistic at the time.) Glory was my back-up, used her more than any other character aside from the decker that I always brought along because I hate locked doors. If you can find her special mission, she can get much stronger as well.

Additional - Starting to fall asleep. Have a good night. =) -flips off your broken quick save before I go-
Post edited October 07, 2015 by CarrionCrow
Morning! *hugs and waves*

Only got 3 and 1/2 hours sleep last night O_O
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toxicTom: Morning! *hugs and waves*

Only got 3 and 1/2 hours sleep last night O_O
*return hug*
May I join the "didn't sleep enough club"? =__=
Also, the "broken chat club"... I see I have messages but can't read them until GOG decides to let chat work today +__+

Good morning to everyone else.
Morning everybody !
**Big hugs with coffee (and an extra large cup for Toxic Tom** :)
The chat is extra buggy today... for a change...
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AgentBirdnest: *return hug*
May I join the "didn't sleep enough club"? =__=
Also, the "broken chat club"... I see I have messages but can't read them until GOG decides to let chat work today +__+

Good morning to everyone else.
Hey, I didn't see your message !
I slept like a baby :) it's been a long time since I slept that much (almost 7 hours ! epic !)
**Pass Agent a big mug of coffee too**
How are you doing ?
Post edited October 07, 2015 by Empress_Owl
Hi boys and girls!

Sleep last night: about four and a half hours. Not good. I used to sleep like a log.

Dentist visit: £60 to be told I have a small infection and need some antibiotics (additional £8.50). It took about four minutes. I bet that manicured shit sleeps well at night.

Aside from that, happy Wednesday!

How's the gaming going?
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Empress_Owl: Hey, I didn't see your message !
I slept like a baby :) it's been a long time since I slept that much (almost 7 hours ! epic !)
**Pass Agent a big mug of coffee too**
How are you doing ?
Ho nice! Give yourself a "Good Sleep" badge :-)
*drinks coffee... and gives a massive hug**
I'm... not too good... but I'm sure I'll be okay, as always. I'm a Survivor.
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Stilton: Hi boys and girls!

Sleep last night: about four and a half hours. Not good. I used to sleep like a log.

Dentist visit: £60 to be told I have a small infection and need some antibiotics (additional £8.50). It took about four minutes. I bet that manicured shit sleeps well at night.

Aside from that, happy Wednesday!

How's the gaming going?
Seems we all had an "opposite of usual" night of sleep ô__ô Bizarre...
Sorry about the dentist bullsh*t... I thought it was bad here... Good luck with the antibiotics. Hopefully they won't give you any trouble.

Gaming? Are we supposed to play these things? :-p
Post edited October 07, 2015 by AgentBirdnest
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AgentBirdnest: Gaming? Are we supposed to play these things? :-p
Its disturbing how the rate at which I buy them exceeds the rate at which I play them by about a drillion to one.

But I'm about to delve into the old west (yours, not mine) and do some 1849ing. Dang, where's my spittoon..?
Post edited October 07, 2015 by Stilton
Hello everyone *big hugs and waves* :)

How're y'all doin' ?
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ElTerprise: Hello everyone *big hugs and waves* :)

How're y'all doin' ?
Hi Elt. Doing pretty good here.

How's Linux going?
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Stilton: Hi Elt. Doing pretty good here.

How's Linux going?
Glad to hear that.

Pretty good - recently replaced the desktop environments on it - but i haven't touched it since the weekend...
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ElTerprise: Hello everyone *big hugs and waves* :)

How're y'all doin' ?
Good mornoon, Mr T.
*tips hugmet*
How's the day treating you so far?