Well I lose track with you Germans and what you outright ban and what you index. You have too much red tape. :-)

True, but I doubt a new election will take place, there is enough to sort out as it is. It is sad to see it have to come to this, but the EU has ignored and bullied the UK for far too long, they can't expect them to keep just putting up with it while giving the EU so much money. It was not like we have not been trying for years to get things to improve for the whole of the EU. There is just too much corruption and ignorance in the EU, an EU that is unwilling to change and do what is best for the people, they are too busy just making the rich more rich and to give large corporations more power. My best hope for all this is that we can still be allies and partners, and that the EU will make some changes finally to help the rest of the EU.

That'd be the mature rational thing to do.
You can expect people, even the supposedly mature rational ones to do the exact opposite thing.
Poop will be flinged.

I know, which makes me sad. But I feel the UK is getting to much blame for the mess that will come, and while granted we voted to leave, it was the EU rulers who forced our hand. And the fact so many other nations are wanting to have their own vote, shows that the EU is failing, and it is time they act on this and either give up, or fix some of the problems and stop being just corrupt puppets.

Of course. Depciting Nazi symbolism is illegal in Germany (art is exempt but video games are not (considered art) - thanks to the uncontested Wolfenstein 3D court decision in 1994 or 95....

Exactly.

Well it is really confusing and overly complicated not to mention a damn shame....

Me neither...but it would not be the worst decision and i mean the exit negotiation will last at least two years according the Lissabon treaty from what i've heard - i mean all member states (UK excluded) have to agree on a way to handle the negotiations first....

Good Morning everybody! How are you?

I'm really devestated! What a sad day for Europe today! Elders destroyed my dream to visit London someday! :( I can visit it I know, but it will be like US in a few years where you need a crap ton papers to get there!

It is two years from when we enact the clause to leave. But the leave people are hoping to delay that in the hops of getting things started with new deals with the EU. Hopefully Germany the EU can see that it is in no ones interest to be vindictive and we can at least remain united in Europe despite not being so in the EU. With any luck all this will really change is that we won't be forced to pay into the EU, and we get control of who we let in our borders. We don't want to stop EU immigration, we just want a say as to who we let in and a to control our own sovereignty and laws. Things that the EU should have never been given power over to begin with. But, as we all know, politicians are like spiteful children, so I doubt either side will behave like adults.

Well that's what i meant...was specific enough, sorry...i'm still trying to concentrate but at least the coffee is helping a bit :)

Will be interesting to how that negotiations will be handled and if there are new agreements being established during that time. I mean economic relations aside it'll be important to how the borders will managed especially the Irish-Northern Irish and the Spanish-Gibraltarian borders....

But i guess time will tell. I mean it's possible that the referendum will cause a domino effect. I've at least heard of remarks from Geert Wilders and Marine Le Pen indicating something like that and i wouldn't be surprised if our own AfD or PEGIDA would also come up with something like that - although referendums on a federal level are not possible here...

I disagree with the whole, 'they forced our hand' argument.
Let me explain why.
While I heartily agree that the EU as a body of government is inept, bloated, corrupt, distant and unrelatable, and incompetent. I'd argue very hard any of those arguments were used properly in the brexit campaign. They were used yes, but in a victimizing way that boiled down to. "Ohmygawd theyz be stealing our lunch moneyz and bullyin' uz. Wez gotta git outta here." Not to mention that this current situation of corruption and incompetence in the EU was not reached to in a day, and the UK politicians had quite an ample hand in engineering it over the years. With a lot of them extremely pleased with things being the way they were. And you know perfectly well which ones I mean, they're everywhere.

There were other solutions to this. UK is a major player in the EU, it might not be an 800 pound gorilla, but it is a 400 pound one. It could have thrown its weight around. What It never was, was a white knight facing a dragon for the good of its people. It did what it did for its own good. Its politicians chose the worst possible alternative, based exclusively on what they felt would benefit their personal interests best.

No, the forcing our hand argument doesn't really hold up to scrutiny, it's an over-simplification to justify a growing and perfectly understandable feeling of disatisfaction with the EU that has been growing all over it for years. And which was exploited and preyed on by individuals who saw profit in it.

No need to be sorry at all.

It will be interesting to see how it will go, and how the borders will change. I just wish the EU would have listened and made changes, so it did not come to all this mess. But as we have said before, the EU has lost the plot and is not what it should be. It is run on greed and power, not the best interest of a united Europe and her people. It seems we might be able to stay in the single market, which will be good for us all, and to be honest, maybe if they let the UK do this, it can be a test case to see how a less intrusive EU would work, as the UK is not the only nation wanting this, nor the only nation that has tried to make changes (Sweden and Hungary for example). But more often than not the German led EU just does as it pleases. Which is another problem, Germany has too much control, and in union like this, no one nation should have that much control and power.

I think many of the calls for elections elsewhere are from right-wing parties trying to fan more anti-EU sentiment. But this does just highlight the growing feeling of distrust to the EU. The UK and others warned about this when the EU chose their current president, a man who wanted a tighter EU at a time when clearly the people did not want that. But they didn't care abut what the people want, just what the high ups in the EU and the corporations want, and that is where most of the problems come from I feel. They don't listen.

I think it's either my imagination, or something I ate. Or both.

Meanwhile, I just nuked my wishlist :-)

How dare you have a different opinion! *throws a hissy fit like 99% of politicians* :-)

Oh I agree, the campaign was terrible, both sides lying and manipulating voters for their own gain. None of them seemed to tell the truth and just give facts. One side made a claim, the other side said it was wrong, but did not really give any details facts to back their side. It was just both sides trying to appeal to the masses of each group.

This whole thing is down to the politicians in the EU as a whole, including those in the UK. But I think you overestimate how much influence we were given in shaping the EU, we had to apply many times before we were even allowed in. And again I agree, those politicians benefiting from the EU of course had a hand to play in all the corruption and the attitude geared toward the rich and the corporations over the people.

And I agree with all the rest as well for the most part. This whole thing is based on lies and greed, but then, that is the EU for you. Many believe the UK and others have tried many times to "thrown its weight around", and to no avail. There are certain nations in the EU that stick together and make sure the UK and others have no real influence in how the EU works. Could it have been handled better? Of course, I wish it had been, I wish the EU had been willing to make changes years ago. But would they ever do that, they seem to have their heads so far up their arse they see no reason to make changes, they just ignore anyone who disagrees and do as they please. Which is why many, not all, think the vote to leave was the best way to send a clear message to the EU. I think the majority of those who voted to leave would have rather stayed in an EU that was willing to change, but as they have shown no intention of changing, some felt it better to leave. Not to mention others did not like so many unelected officials to have control over their freedom and sovereignty. The EU should perhaps stick to trade and basic legal ties, not the power house they are and want to be. And if you doubt that they want to be a real power in the world outside of trade, then ask why they would need a European Army when we already have NATO?

I am not saying I agree with everyones view on it, I am just saying what some people are saying and their arguments for the vote.

*throws a pie at the bunny like a real politician*

Whatever caused it, I hope you're feeling better quickly.

You lucky so-and-so. I wish I could do that. =)

Very well said :)

Yes indeed. Well i guess that's a general feeling that the EU needs to change quite a bit - and i agree with that. Especially in terms of power for single member states.

I wouldn't say that it's only distrust in the EU and its institutions - it's also the fallout of globalisation and unhindered capitalism and the ridiculous financialisation of the world economy. And politicians - both on the european and national level - failed to address or even acknowledge that because of the outrageous connections between the big players of the economy and politicians.

Good morning, everybody !!! :)
**Hugs, waves, coffee and garlic snails**

*big return hug*
Good morning, Lil Coffeathers. Happy Friday :-)